bikerbobbbb

Cleaned my bike today. I've noticed the rear wheel would rub against something, maybe the splash guard or brake or a new rear light I attached uniquely on the splashguard.

So I'm cleaning the rims and around all the spokes and I see this.

It's completely shot now right? That's a double-rimmed wheel.

There's no workaround, fix, etc., nothing that's going to last, right? It's just a matter of time before things break even more.

Now that I focused more attention on it, I see the wheel is wobbling a little. I had it trued up pretty good before.

That and one of the shifter/handlebar pieces probably needs to be replaced eventually, which was a little depressing. I thought about bringing it a bike shop, but I still want to do this myself. Plus the one bike shop sold me this rear wheel with a hub that's 5mm too narrow for my bike and they seemed a bit off and arrogant so I don't want to give them any business.


No hope for this current rim, right? I need to replace the entire wheel, right? The hub isn't correct for my bike, and these are well worn spokes. I'm not going to miss this 32 spoke wheel too much. It may actually be a plus since I was going to build a 36 spoke better wheel and have this 32 spoke one as backup. But if the hub is narrowed on this 32 spoke wheel, then the gears might be off a little compared to a new/better 36 spoke wheel with the correct hub. My plan now I think is to build two new 36 spoke wheels, identical to each other. Then I can swap them out and everything's the same. Work on one while the backup is on the bike.

Andrew R Stewart 

Yes the rim is toast. The pull through is larger then nipple washers are. Whether the entire wheel (as in hub) are worth recycling with another rim and spokes is yet to be judged.


As to the shifter make sure the problem isn't a fairly easy solvent flush and re lube need before replacing it. Andy.

bikerbobbbb

What crossed my mind is maybe I could stick a wash underneath that, but that doesn't sounds like any kind of solution even if it did work. The nipple and spoke wouldn't work right, and if it's weaker there, it would just prolong the break more. Plus, how would you even get a washer large enough into a double walled rim?


Second question/concern -- I had my wheel trued up. Would this rim break have happened because overall it had too much tension? I think the wheel is from 2012, so it's probably got five years of riding on it. Plus, many spokes broke, so there was more wear and tear that way, wear and tear on other spokes, and I would imagine wear and tear on the rim itself. I did have it trued up though and haven't broken a spoke for... a while now. 6+ months at least I think.

I'm not jumping around with the bike. The tires aren't leaving the ground. There are some places with uneven sidewalks when I hit a decent lip in the sidewalks now and then.

Third/followup question -- Is this normal or is me overtensioning probably? Do rims eventually wear out and break like this? I don't want to repeat the same mistake if I build a new wheel in the near future, esp. if I build two wheels and make the same mistake.

Bill Kapaun

Rim is toast.
If you could find a new rim with the same ERD, you could reuse your existing spokes.
A hub can have 5mm spacing added, but you may need a longer axle.
The spacing doesn't really affect the cogs, since the difference is on the NDS.

CliffordK

I've thought about re-drilling a rim, so the new holes land between the old holes. Welding? If only my aluminum welding was more consistent.

But, yes, in general, that rim is TOAST.

Look at other nipples, and you may notice more cracking, just not quite as obvious as that one.

If you source exactly the same rim, or one with the same ERD, you may be able to transfer all the spokes and hub over from the old wheel to the new rim. Then just true & dish the new wheel.

But, it sounds like you are already planning an upgrade.

FBinNY 

As others said, and you already knew ---- it's toast.

However you might be able to eke out a bit more life with a large enough washer, or even 2 washers stacked to spread the load. You might have to file the sides and bend the washers a bit for a decent fit, but it can be done as an emergency repair. If you go that route, consider it only as an interim deal, to give you time to buy a replacement and schedule a proper rebuild.

I only bring it up because sometimes people have this happen on the road, so I'm hoping to offer whoever reads this something they can leave in the mental toolbox, and call on if they find themselves broken down on a long tour.

bikerbobbbb

I'd give up on all the spokes. They used, worn. New is safer for the new one. I'll probably keep the hub since I should have kept the hub from the original wheel. This hub is 5mm too narrow for my bike though so I won't reuse it.

The nipples might be the only useful part left. And the tires and inner tube.



Solvent flush.... There might be something with that. There was a little wire "spring" that pushed the thumb shifter back in place after shifting. That broke but it didn't seem worth replacing the entire thing if it worked. I just flip it back in place with my thumb. I tried adding lube inside the shifter/handlebar part, but that was wax-based lube. That's crusted up in the shifter now, so if there is a way to flush it out, that might make it work better. Today I tried adding watercraft lube to it, both left and right. The point was to lube it up so the cable moved smoothly there. The right shifter I use all the time and those eventually snap inside the shifter right there. Maybe lubing it would extend the life. People mentioned on here that shifter cables should break either in that place or that often. It seemed like it was breaking every 1-2 years, always the right one since I use it, always right inside the handlebar part where the cable winds around inside. Thanks for the idea. I could never see a way to replace the little wire/spring part that pushed the shifter back after shifting though. A new one could solve flushing/cleaning and maybe whatever rubs and wears out cables I was thinking. I haven't replaced a shifter though so that's another project.

CliffordK

How heavy are you? 26" or 700c?

It is quite possible that the problem has been developing for some time. Like I said, look at other spoke nipples for smaller cracks forming.

It is possible the rim was bent sometime, forcing uneven tension in the spokes. Or, perhaps for some other reason tension was uneven.

But, after 6 years of use... it happens. Just replace the rim, or the wheel, and keep riding.

Some people have suggested that double butted spokes have a little more spring to them, and are easier on the rims. I can't say for sure. Older rims had eyelets and sockets, but were still prone to problems. They went out of style with aero rim profiles.

bikerbobbbb

Ok, thanks for the replies. I'm going to move on to making a new rear wheel (two now though).

Is this normal or would I have overtensioned it? That might be a "yes" for both questions. I'm wondering how I'll know not to overtension a newly built wheel so it doesn't happen again.


These are also straight spokes. I did buy some double butted spokes to swap in. (Worthless purchase now. Brand new spokes that will never get used.) With double butted spokes, they were supposed to be stronger on the ends. If they did snap, they'd snap in the middle... supposedly. Mine kept snapping on the ends by the hub. But if it's a double butted spoke and the elbow doesn't snap.... Wouldn't that also put more pressure on the rim? Or would the middle of the double butted spoke flex a bit more too, maybe reducing pressure on the rim that would cause a break like this?

Either way, I build a new wheel. That solves it for a while. If I build two wheels, I'll have one for backup.

bikerbobbbb

I'm 200 pounds. Bike is 700c.

I also carry up to around 50 pounds on baskets on the back of the bike. And I sit upright on the bike, like standing position for the upper body. So that rear wheel is getting all the abuse.

Weight-wise, it sounds like I'm at the limit for the bike but not overweighting it. Some on here said it should take that and more.

AlexCyclistRoch

Oh, good lord, BikerBobb is back........expect an other 20 questions about his now ruined rim.....

bikerbobbbb

I'm done with the rim. It's just a matter of time until the wheel wobbles into uselessness.

Yes, for lots of questions about speccing out parts for two new rear wheel replacements and how to build a wheel though.

Bill Kapaun

I've got a rack/folding baskets on my grocery getter, that I'll load up to 50lbs. (I'm about 250)
Because of my large feet, I have the baskets about 2/3 behind the axle, which "levers" a bit more of the front weight to the rear.
HARD SKINNY tires make road "jolts" much more severe on wheels. I went back to a fatter rear tire, just to provide some "shock absorption".

I'd suggest an offset rim. That makes the DS/NDS spoke tensions much closer to each other and helps "spread the load".

Used nipples with all other new parts is simply stupid. Nipples are your least expensive part and make building go MUCH easier. Used nipples will want to bind etc. and be very inconsistent on "perceived tension".
The idea is to build it up evenly.

iradnj

You could put a stripe of aluminum with a hole the nibble will fit through in the rim. An inch ling by 1/2 inch wide fit into the rim channel. The metal should be 1/16 inch thick.

CliffordK

Hard to say. 250 lbs with rider + cargo and the 50 lbs being 100% on the rear may push it a bit over the top. But, you've had several years of use out of it.

The 36h sounds like a good alternative. Good Luck with your builds.

Homebrew01

Thanks for your "contribution". Please don't post in this thread again.

JohnDThompson 

A washer under the nipple when the wheel was being built may have helped, but at this point it's too late.

That could have contributed to it. In general, 32 spoke (and higher spoke count) wheels don't need as much tension as low spoke count wheels. And eyeletless rims don't tolerate high spoke tension as well as eyelted rims unless you use nipple washers when building the wheel.

trailangel

Why the Schrader valve tube on 700c rim?
Have you been leaving the bike outside over night?

GamblerGORD53

A bunch of busted spokes ?? I would chuck the whole wheel. What's with the silly short valve?
Get a medium wide flange 36h hub and Velocity Dyad rims. 13/14g spokes too at that weight.
Nothing will break again. Mine had zero problem with 170 + 120 lbs on tour. You get what you pay for. GIGO.
Eyelet rims are STUPID.

dabac

It does happen every now and then. If its all over the wheel its usually due to overtension. Although occasionally a too stiff/brittle rim alloy is blamed.
If its only a spoke or two, it can be caused by a sudden overload, a crash, collision etc.
Spoke tensiometer, experience, comparison to a wheel with a known tension, an app that lets you check the pitch of a plucked spoke.
No, no. Where did you get that idea?
Spokes almost always fail through fatigue. Same as when bending a paper clip back & forth until it breaks - which happens at the elbow as a spoke goes from tight to slack when they pass between hub and ground.
Butted spokes - at the right tension - are stretchier, so they are better at staying in tension as they pass between hub and ground. As they stay in tension, the elbows don't flex and break.
Perfectly normal and expected behaviour for an undertensioned spoke regardless of type.

More pressure than what?
Of course an intact spoke of any kind will put more pressure on the rim than a broken spoke. But a DB spoke won't put more pressure on the rim than a straight gauge spoke.
Yes

berner

You mention you've had a bike shop work on your wheels. My experience with bike shops working on my wheels has not been good. While the wheels may come back true, spoke tension has had great variability so that some spokes are doing most of the work. I've been pushed into doing my own wheel work. Check their work if you go back.