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Frayed carbon at brake mount

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Frayed carbon at brake mount

Old 03-06-17, 09:44 AM
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cloozoe
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Frayed carbon at brake mount

Was awaiting delivery of what was to be my first carbon frame, when I received a note/picture from the guy who sold it to me saying he had belatedly noticed raggedness at rear brake mount. He will of course simply send me my money back, but wondering how much of an issue this is. I'm a heretofore lugged steel bike guy, so know nothing about the nature of the material. Thoughts?

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-06-17, 09:59 AM
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wschruba
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Damage (which can't even really be seen from a shot like that--head on/profile, too, please) to the mounting for a primary control system? No thanks. I might still buy it if the components were worth the price, or the seller was willing to knock off the cost of the frame.

The picture you show looks likes someone tightened the mounting bolt too much, and cracked the material around where the bolt's flange sits. Again, can't see it clearly from here, but more than a handful of manufacturers use large flange barrel bolts to help distribute those forces better.
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Old 03-06-17, 10:11 AM
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"Belatedly noticed" my foot.

Forget about the frame. I'd ask for a refund simply on principal.


-Tim-
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Old 03-06-17, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
Damage (which can't even really be seen from a shot like that--head on/profile, too, please) to the mounting for a primary control system? No thanks. I might still buy it if the components were worth the price, or the seller was willing to knock off the cost of the frame.

The picture you show looks likes someone tightened the mounting bolt too much, and cracked the material around where the bolt's flange sits. Again, can't see it clearly from here, but more than a handful of manufacturers use large flange barrel bolts to help distribute those forces better.
Asked for head on pic. Will post if I get. Yeah, I assumed from overtightening, too.
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Old 03-06-17, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
"Belatedly noticed" my foot.

Forget about the frame. I'd ask for a refund simply on principal.


-Tim-
Seemed like a hard thing to miss to me, too, Tim, but he sent the picture and notified me before sending the frame, and not only readily offered refund, but additional money "for my trouble". Who knows; he could have bought it with brakes installed and not seen it until he took them off to ship. Moot, I guess.
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Old 03-06-17, 10:54 AM
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I'd accept his refund offer before he changes his mind.
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Old 03-06-17, 12:36 PM
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cloozoe
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
I'd accept his refund offer before he changes his mind.
No doubt the most circumspect thing to do, but it was really inexpensive for what it is (2012 Time NXR), it was purchased from a longtime member on one of the bike forums, seemingly a very nice guy, and I doubt there will be an issue of his changing his mind. He's going to take additional pictures when he gets home tonight, and maybe I/we can learn more from them. My thinking is if it's at all crushed/deformed, than clearly I'll pass, but not sure what to do if it's "merely" (assuming any carbon damage can be considered "mere" - hence the purpose of my post) a little frayed on the surface.
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Old 03-06-17, 01:14 PM
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CliffordK
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Any idea what is below the CF?

Many older CF forks apparently have an aluminum crown.

Perhaps use a nail or something to probe in the mounting hole. If it is solid aluminum, then the fork may be fine.

Coin echo test to identify the crown?
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Old 03-06-17, 01:22 PM
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cloozoe
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Any idea what is below the CF?

Many older CF forks apparently have an aluminum crown.

Perhaps use a nail or something to probe in the mounting hole. If it is solid aluminum, then the fork may be fine.

Coin echo test to identify the crown?
Not the fork; rear mount on wishbone seat stay, ergo carbon all the way down. But thanks for chiming in.
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Old 03-06-17, 01:34 PM
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Used Carbon, ham fisted prior owner-Mechanic. Good Luck.
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Old 03-06-17, 03:07 PM
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cloozoe
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Used Carbon, ham fisted prior owner-Mechanic. Good Luck.
~sigh~ Yeah, I know you're right and the thing to do is walk away. I've been spending the last week while waiting for it mentally designing the wheels I was going to build for it, and I'm having trouble letting go.

Guy feels really bad and offered me an IF SSR for the same price, but the whole point of the exercise was to experience first hand what's been going on in terms of 21st century material technology that the entire cycling universe seems to have embraced while I've continued to build and ride 70s and 80s lugged steel. If I wound up not liking it (as my retrogrouch friends assured me I wouldn't), no harm done and I would have broken it down and resold it, but seems kind of perverse that I've never even ridden a carbon bike.
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Old 03-06-17, 03:14 PM
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You can apply more lacquer or epoxy then lacquer.. but do you trust the condition of the rest of the bike..

the BF is full of bargain shoppers wanting high end on the cheap and regretting it when they open the box.




...
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Old 03-06-17, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
You can apply more lacquer or epoxy then lacquer.. but do you trust the condition of the rest of the bike..

the BF is full of bargain shoppers wanting high end on the cheap and regretting it when they open the box.




...
No reason to trust or distrust it (other than the ham-handedness that likely caused the damage that's the reason for the thread); all I've seen are pictures, in which it looks very clean. Given the guy's attitude, I have little doubt he would take it back after I'd seen it in person, so if I went that route, I'd be out nothing but shipping cost. And it was inexpensive enough so that even at a total loss, life would go on... assuming, of course, that I didn't kill myself on it due to some hidden flaw.







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Old 03-06-17, 03:58 PM
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Of course its just pictures to me ... good luck.
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Old 03-06-17, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cloozoe View Post
...
Guy feels really bad and offered me an IF SSR for the same price....
Take the SSR and run. Can't say enough good things about Indy Fab, I have three of 'em. I seriously doubt you would be disappointed. A test ride would confirm this but I assume you're buying at a distance.
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Old 03-06-17, 04:43 PM
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cloozoe
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Originally Posted by bargainguy View Post
Take the SSR and run. Can't say enough good things about Indy Fab, I have three of 'em. I seriously doubt you would be disappointed. A test ride would confirm this but I assume you're buying at a distance.
By all accounts it's a fine bike, for all I know a better bike, but modern steel or no, it would be yet another steel bike in my stable. Been there, done that.

I'm big on empiricism, don't give a damn about opinions insisting "steel is real" nor, conversely, do I care about opinions of those who think I'm nuts for riding my "heavy" old Masi when I could be riding a light modern bike. I want to find out for myself what it's like to ride a 15 lb carbon bike vs what I'm used to - then I'll know and can move on from there. It's time.
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Old 03-06-17, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Of course its just pictures to me ... good luck.
Yep, just pictures to me, too. If and when I get it, I'll do my best to examine it carefully.
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Old 03-06-17, 07:22 PM
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OK, good luck with your new frame!
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Old 03-07-17, 07:54 AM
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Just to wrap this up, if anyone's curious, I passed on the frame.
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Old 03-07-17, 09:27 AM
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Just as I was about to chime in and say that it looks perfectly fine from here. Seriously. That's a tiny bit of damage to the clear coat of the frame. Touch it up if it really bothers you with a little sand paper and some clear coat. And make sure to use a proper washer between the brake and frame. I'd have taken a discount since it wasn't declared up front but would not have passed on the frame.
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Old 03-07-17, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for nuthin' Jack

Best guess is you're right - although I did see additional, head on pictures and it's pretty ratty - but I passed for 3 reasons

1. What if the guy who put it together (not the seller), by over-tightening and/or using a brake bolt/washer with too small a flange, managed, in addition to causing the superficial damage (visible), also caused an (invisible) incipient crack to the structure? (apologies for the foregoing sentence). Is this even possible? Damned if I know; that's why I was asking youse guys.

2. If, late or soon, I decided to sell it, I'd be in the same position as the guy who sold it to me is in.

3. There's always another bike.
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Old 03-07-17, 04:50 PM
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Iv'e seen that Carbon Rear mono Stay used in what was a mostly metal frame, too. so CF under your Butt, and CF fork..
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