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Rear mech skipping gears...out of ideas

Old 03-11-17, 01:57 PM
  #1  
ErikvanD
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Rear mech skipping gears...out of ideas

Hi all,

I just bought a new Kona Penthouse. This bike came with a 2x8 Claris group set and a road bar. I've changed the bike to a 1x10 flatbar setup using the following components (all brand new and unused):

- Alfine 39t crank (chainline about on cog 5-6)
- 105 5700 short cage rear mech (10 speed)
- Tiagra 10 speed thumb shifter
- Ultegra 12-23 cassette (pretty flat over here)
- Chain KMC X10.93 10s

I've installed everything using new cables (inner/outer). So far I really like the setup, nice close ratio gears. I do find shifting a bit heavy (mainly from smaller to larger cogs). Heavier than the Alfine 8 on my other bike and the Altus 8 on my kids bikes. I triple checked everything for drag etc. and everything seems to be in order. Have not yet compared to another bike with the same shifter. But no too heavy, I can certainly live with it.

But...

...so far I have not been able to set up the shifting correctly I carefully lined up the rear mech with both the largest and smallest sprockets. And tried fine adjusting the rear mech using the cable screw. Followed a few manuals I found online. Without the cable attached to the rear derailleur the shifting goes super light, no noticeable drag in the cables. The rear mech also moves as it should without any heavy spots. The hanger does not seem to be crooked (integrated in frame).

So far going up the cogs (so from smaller to larger) goes pretty well although the chain does rattle more than it should on some cogs. Going down, the rear mech sometimes does not shift (especially on the larger cogs). I've now set up the middle 3-4 gears as best as possible as I use these the most but I still hope to be able to shift all 10 as they should.

I'm out of ideas... any suggestions?

Cheers,
Erik
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Old 03-11-17, 03:34 PM
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Old 03-11-17, 03:36 PM
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Don't some thumb shifters have mtn bike pull ratios that differ from road ?? Maybe your rear derailleur is not compatible with the shifters ??
(Sorry, I'm not knowledgeable about specific models to know the answer)
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Old 03-11-17, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Don't some thumb shifters have mtn bike pull ratios that differ from road ?? Maybe your rear derailleur is not compatible with the shifters ??
(Sorry, I'm not knowledgeable about specific models to know the answer)
Since it's a Tiagra shifter (road groupset), it should be matched for the pull ratio for Shimano 10 speed stuff (same for Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, etc as long as it's 10 speed. I think Dura Ace is a little different, but I'm not sure).
- edit: apparently Tiagra 4700 is different from 105 5700. You would need a Tiagra 4600 shifter to work with your current derailleur setup (or, conversely, a Tiagra 4700 rear derailleur).

Looking at your parts list, it seems that everything is compatible. Have you checked to make sure all the ferrules and housing ends are properly seated in their places, and that there isn't any excess cable housing or anything that might increase drag? You could try lubricating the inside of the cable housing with some tri-flow to see if that helps.

If you bought any of these parts used, it might be worth checking to make sure the derailleur cage isn't bent or anything.
- edit: you mentioned everything was new in the OP. May still be worth checking to ensure alignment.

Detailed pictures of your current setup would help with seeing if there are any obvious issues.

Last edited by vdub6541; 03-11-17 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 03-11-17, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
Hi all,

So far going up the cogs (so from smaller to larger) goes pretty well although the chain does rattle more than it should on some cogs. Going down, the rear mech sometimes does not shift (especially on the larger cogs). I've now set up the middle 3-4 gears as best as possible as I use these the most but I still hope to be able to shift all 10 as they should.

Check to make sure the chain is properly sized and has the right tension in each gear. Lower chain tension would make the shifts a bit sloppier than if the chain was properly tensioned.

I would assume the cassette is also properly installed and doesn't have any play in it, but it might be something to check just in case. I've made this mistake before when I was in a rush.
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Old 03-11-17, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
Hi all,

I just bought a new Kona Penthouse. This bike came with a 2x8 Claris group set and a road bar. I've changed the bike to a 1x10 flatbar setup using the following components (all brand new and unused):

- Alfine 39t crank (chainline about on cog 5-6)
- 105 5700 short cage rear mech (10 speed)
- Tiagra 10 speed thumb shifter


I'm out of ideas... any suggestions?
Which Tiagra? Tiagra 4700 components use the cable pull ratios of 11-speed Shimano (5800/6800/etc). You need to make sure you have a Tiagra 4600 flat bar shifter, the 4700 version will not work (but will work with a 105 5800 rear derailleur).
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Old 03-11-17, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
The hanger does not seem to be crooked (integrated in frame).
I'd recommend checking the RD alignment using an alignment tool, e.g. a Park DAG-2.
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Old 03-11-17, 08:43 PM
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Reduce the rear derailer cable tension to encourage faster upshifting (big cogs to small ones), since this is currently where your's lags

then pull out the B-tension screw to compensate for the loss in downshifting responsiveness (small cogs to big ones)
back it out as far as it can without grinding noises in the lowest gear ratio


But before doing any of that, check for sources of friction on the cables/housing/ferrule ends, and the derailer alignment
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Old 03-11-17, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
Which Tiagra? Tiagra 4700 components use the cable pull ratios of 11-speed Shimano (5800/6800/etc). You need to make sure you have a Tiagra 4600 flat bar shifter, the 4700 version will not work (but will work with a 105 5800 rear derailleur).
You learn something new every day. I had no idea they used a different pull ratio. I'll edit my post above to reflect that. Sorry!
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Old 03-12-17, 11:19 AM
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Thanks guys! I thought all 10 speed road gear from Shimano was compatible, I guess I was wrong... The shifter I have is a 4700 series... So I'm going to find myself a 4600 shifter or a 4700 derailleur. Thx!
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Old 03-13-17, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
Thanks guys! I thought all 10 speed road gear from Shimano was compatible, I guess I was wrong... The shifter I have is a 4700 series... So I'm going to find myself a 4600 shifter or a 4700 derailleur. Thx!
A 4700 derailleur will probably be less expensive than a 4600 shifter and easier to find
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Old 03-13-17, 07:34 AM
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ErikvanD
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I've just ordered a 4700 derailleur. I'll post again when I have mounted it.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:39 AM
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I just replaced the rear derailleur with a Tiagra 4700 one and the bike shifts perfectly now! Thx again!
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Old 03-18-17, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
I just replaced the rear derailleur with a Tiagra 4700 one and the bike shifts perfectly now! Thx again!
Great! Thanks for posting the solution.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ErikvanD View Post
Thanks guys! I thought all 10 speed road gear from Shimano was compatible, I guess I was wrong... The shifter I have is a 4700 series... So I'm going to find myself a 4600 shifter or a 4700 derailleur. Thx!
Glad you got it fixed, but this statement had me laughing. It USED to be that easy. Now-a-day, it's not.

Here's a handy dandy list of compatibilities.

(I have no idea why this info isn't on sheldon brown)

https://blog.artscyclery.com/science-...compatibility/
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Old 03-19-17, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Glad you got it fixed, but this statement had me laughing. It USED to be that easy. Now-a-day, it's not.

Here's a handy dandy list of compatibilities.

(I have no idea why this info isn't on sheldon brown)

Art's Cyclery Blog Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility
Great resource. Interesting reading. Thx for posting.
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