use cable stops for shifting cables?
 

My old bike (Schwinn Mesa LT) has the same type of cable for the brakes and the shifters. it looks like braided steel and plastic outer liner. As you see from the picture the plastic liner is falling apart.

1. Is my index cable compression-less at all? It is odd that the brake cable looks exactly the same (I know compression cable is not rated for brake forces). I don't really have shift problems, but maybe I just got used to make up a bit.
2. Do I need to replace the cables or is the outer plastic aesthetic only? As long as the braided steel isn't corroding it shouldn't matter.... but I assume water will penetrate etc.
3. If i chose to install new shifter cables, should I use the cable stops on the frame? My concern is this leaves many openings for water and dirt to penetrate. I saw some new bikes that just have one complete outer sleeve. I read using the cable stops means less friction since less cable touches the case. But I think over time with dirt getting in, this likely gets negated by more friction in the sleeved portion.
4. what type of cable is recommended for shifting? I envisoned just getting a set of shimano (i have SRAM 3x9, but that should not matter to the cable). It doesn't' say compression-less. is it safe to assume all shimano cables are compressionless?
5. Does that cable ever need to get greased? The new types have the smooth inner liner and the shimano description says it has silicone grease applied. Does that mean it needs to be re-greased? I read adding more grease over time will increase friction since one would make it tighter. I used to just squirt some oil in at each ferrule, to prevent corrosion. But with a stainless steel cable that should not be needed.

For the brake cable I may just go hydraulic if I have to replace the cable.

If your cables and housing are old - that housing looks old - probably time to replace them with new cables and housing. The inside of the housing and the ends are likely sketchy if the outside looks worn out. Correct that your brakes or derailleurs don't care what brand cables you use. I use stainless Jagwire cables of late. And housing. In order to run housing the entire length, you would have to drill out the ends of the cable stops. I have never considered doing that. If the inside of housing is lined, then lube is not supposed to be required but many folks still put some on the cables.

You would replace the brakes with hydraulics just because the cables need replacement? Sounds like a lot of trouble/expense, unless you really want hydraulics.

Don't make the mistake that what you see on the books' covers mean that what's inside are the same. Yes, both shift and brake casing have much the same metal mesh outer covering but I'll bet a lot that the insides of the casings are different. Have you bothered to take then apart yet to see the insides? You can see that the inner cables are of two different diameters. I strongly suspect that the brace casing will have one filament tightly wound so it's coils contact each other, providing large expansing strength and allowing a lot of bending flexibility. The shift casing will likely have a number of wires which are side by side and "slowly" wrap around the liner providing high compression strength but far less flexibility.


Whatever you do DON'T use a modern index specific shift casing in the brake system. The casing can burst outwards creating a loss of braking. Andy

I just looked, but without taking off the ferrules I don't see much - the ferrule hole is too small. They don't seem to come off easily and without committing to actual replacement I didn't want to cut.

Reason I would consider installing rear hydraulic disc brake: this bike came with mechanical disc brakes. I have ordered a front disc brake and was too cheap to also replace the rear brake since that is not the primary brake. But if I end up spending money on new cable and spend time, i may was well replace the brake for a bit more $. I already invested in a bleederkit. I also have never changed the brake pads. So keeping the old brakes may not really save much if I indeed need to replace that brake cable. The Deore hydraulic brake was under $50.

Drilling out the stops isn't a problem since I wouldn't have to cut the cables and lines multiple times and i really don't like exposed cables. I was just wondering if there is some inherent advantage of having stops and with casing-bare cable- casing - bare cable - casing.

Are all the Shimano gear cables compression-less? One the one hand I would think this is standard now and that is why they don't advertise that feature. On the other hand there always could be an accountant who decided to offer a "value" model.

Besides more friction (and less brake power which would not matter in the rear), is there some inherent danger of just leaving the old cables?

You've got some kind of Jagwire Compressionless housing system.
it's a series of stiff wires (like common shifter housing) but reinforced with an outer braiding to keep it from bursting under pressure, thus suitable for braking forces.

as already stated: if you do replace it, don't mix up brake and shifter housings

I would use the Housing Stops instead of going Full Length Housing
while full length might help avoid dirt contamination, it is not a perfect seal and Eventually will get dirt or corrosion - at which point the full housing becomes a liability from massively increased friction and difficulty in adding lubrication, all you can do is replace it then

with the cable stops, there are more openings to the housings, but in my experience that just makes them easier to service- dismount each section from the stops, slide down the line, wipe up dirt and add oil

summary:
full housing = slowly (but surely) degrading, no maintenance
sectioned housing = better performance but more frequent maintenance

^^^
Once more, with emphasis:
as already stated: if you do replace it, don't mix up brake and shifter housings

That is kind of what I have been doing so far. If I kept it full length I could (less frequently) just take off the whole housing and do that (I would lose some cable length every time to cut off the crimp, though). I assume since Shimano has them pre-lubed with lithium grease I would stay with that?

Does anyone think there is a problem with just leaving them for now? Or is the disintegrating outer plastic a ticking time bomb causing damage to the layers below (more water etc.)? Are cables something the at one replaces after some years, or is what they used here just really cheap material? All other cables I ever had was some black rubbery plastic (for lack of better term) and I never saw such flake-off. If I went over it with a brush it would all come off.

Of all the indexed casings to let age past their prime these with the outer weave of reinforcing mesh are the ones to neglect. :) Andy

I fully agree with Andy 100% correct, in the old days all cables were the same, both ID & OD, now shifter cables are normally 4.mm dia, & brake cables 5.mm diameter OD, the inner cable are different dia as well, so when installing these the either metal or plastic end caps come in two types for 4.mm but only metal for 5.mm.

the the OD cable construction is different I hope my Attachment loads, as I could not load the whole file but if you dial it up on the web there is plenty to read up on, maybe I've had too many wines for dinner who knows.

Jagwire kits come with ferrules with a snout to reduce water and grime getting into the housing. Think of it as the middle ground between full housing and bare cable stops.

Looking at that I would convert to a hydraulic disc and then run new shift cable and housing. You won't regret it.

That's probably what I will do. Is is it safe to assume any cheap Shimano gear cable will do? Or are there features or qualities i miss with the low end? (I'm a noob, so Shimano is a safe bet and I can buy it anywhere...... I'm annoyed with the no-name or budget brand parts on my bike, never worth it).

Next week I get my front hydraulic brake and will install it. if that all goes well and I can appreciate the difference, i will move on to the rear brake. This is an old bike I'm "restoring" to ride more.

Not a safe assumption. Shimano has grades ranging from Walmart to ProTour.

If you want Shimano, get something labeled "SUS" and probably with the standard SP41 housing.
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Bicyc...dp/B005DTRMH2/

Jagwire Pro kits are equal quality with Shimano.

Both Jagwire and Shimano are available in a wide range of colors. Since you're updating the bike, pick a color that looks nice with the frame colors.

I tend to find Jagwire although very good they can be very hard & stiff, & in areas like around the handle bar stem area they can mark the paint work, I normally have to then sleeve them with heat shrink to help this: I hasten to add this is not an issue with length being too short or long, I've tried several ways, one has to follow where the cable routing ferrules are.

I found these Shimano OPTISLICK. Internet tells me they are the successor to the PTFE? Any opinion on that?

I heard Jagwire can have good products, but i have never seen outer casing deteriorate like my Jagwire cables. and my bikes in a garage and not ridden a lot at all. I realize mine was the lowest grade they may have, but they still put their name on it :-)

Edit: is there a difference between cable kits to be called "Road" or "MTB"? the only difference I can imagine overall length, but they seem to be the same length. And if MTB is more dirt-resistant, i didn't see that to be more expensive.

[QUOTE = Edit: is there a difference between cable kits to be called "Road" or "MTB"? the only difference I can imagine overall length, but they seem to be the same length. And if MTB is more dirt-resistant, i didn't see that to be more expensive.[/QUOTE]

The difference is the inner cable will have different connections on the handlebar end for MTB brakes & shifters to road levers. MTB rear brake cable used to be longer for the disc brakes but now as road bikes are being fitted with discs I guess they maybe the same length, but still different ends.

If you choose to use a single long section of cable housing and not use the cable stops on the frame, how are you going to keep the housings tight and neat on the frame? Depending on my use of the bike, I sometimes go years without changing cables and housings. That's the most that you can hope to gain. On the other hand, I have to look at the bike every single time that I use it. I'd rather keep it tidy looking when I can.

I think Andy is correct

Whatever you do DON'T use a modern index specific shift casing in the brake system. The casing can burst outwards creating a loss of braking.

I will just drill out the stops to fit the whole cable in. I may need a cable tie here or there. For the rear I'm talking myself more into buying a disc brake (a Shimano Acera is only $32). And for a hydraulic brake I don't have a choice but to drill.

Darn, I really like the newer style frames with internal cable routing... is just clean and protected.
Thanks to all for your advice

i haven't updated for long, sorry, but i didn't want to clutter up the thread without progress. I replaced the shifter cables with the shimano Optislick. I replaced the rear brake with a hydraulic brake. Drilled out all the stops (except the one needed for the front derailleur) and filed the holes to be large enough and relatively smooth.

One thing I learned is for my next bike I look for a good cable solution for it to have some internal cable routing. I also ran some wires for my cadence sensor (of my speedometer) and had to use some cable ties.

I got black cables since hydraulic lines are black anyway and the front of my bike is red. White just looks dirty quickly.

Thanks for all your advice.