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Tubeless

Old 04-21-17, 11:13 AM
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Tubeless

I don't get it. All these new bikes are advertised as tubeless ready....what real reason is there for going tubeless?
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Old 04-21-17, 11:29 AM
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99% less flats. I'll speak from a mt bikers perspective. No tube to pinch flat. They use a sealant that when you roll over a thorn or other small pointy object, the sealant seals the holes. Also the ability to run much lower pressure is great for mt biking. No weight of the tube, less rolling resistance. Better traction and grip( for mt bibking)
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Old 04-21-17, 11:46 AM
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Are you asking about road or MTB?
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Old 04-21-17, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
99% less flats. I'll speak from a mt bikers perspective. No tube to pinch flat. They use a sealant that when you roll over a thorn or other small pointy object, the sealant seals the holes. Also the ability to run much lower pressure is great for mt biking. No weight of the tube, less rolling resistance. Better traction and grip( for mt bibking)
Everything Leebo says. As well, the trend toward plus-sizing means that tubes begin to get awfully heavy. My riding buddy runs 2.8" tires on his 27.5+ bike. I shudder to think what tubes for that size would weigh. He runs tubeless.

People in desert environments benefit from not having to worry about cactus needles. Or so I've been told.
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Old 04-21-17, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
Are you asking about road or MTB?
Almost every new bike I look at says "tubeless ready" so I guess I am asking about all bikes. Those points make since about MTB.
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Old 04-23-17, 04:20 AM
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For road bikes: better rolling resistance vs. pressure and self repairing for some % of punctures. Everyone weighs pros/cons differently (a quick search will bring up at least a half dozen recent tubeless holy war threads), but since one rim design can support both tubed and tubeless, that's what gets spec'd on new bikes.
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Old 04-24-17, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
99% less flats. I'll speak from a mt bikers perspective. No tube to pinch flat. They use a sealant that when you roll over a thorn or other small pointy object, the sealant seals the holes. Also the ability to run much lower pressure is great for mt biking. No weight of the tube, less rolling resistance. Better traction and grip( for mt bibking)
Of course you could use sealant, such as Slime, in tubes to get the same protection against flats. The sealant in the tubeless negates any weight savings of not using a tube as well.

As for no pinch flats, you can avoid that problem by keeping your tires inflated so that the tire doesn't bottom out on impacts. And, while you may get a bit better traction at lower pressures, the possibility of burping a tubeless tire and the possibility of damaging a rim when the tire does bottom out increases significantly.

And there's the maintenance issue of the sealant that you failed to mention. Sealants have traditionally needed to be "refreshed" every 6 months or so because they "dry out". My question on this issue has always been, how? If the tire isn't constantly leaking air somewhere...not normal diffusion but a serious leak...how does a liquid get out of the rubber container? While rubber is permeable to gases, it's not permeable to liquids...think old tires that serve as perfect mosquito breeding grounds. Where does it "dry" to?

The answer lies in the sealant itself. It contains propylene glycol (or other glycols) which dissolve into the rubber. This problem used to be manifest by blistering of tires when used with early tubeless set ups. The rubber used is a bit better now but the glycols still dissolve into the rubber.

Propylene glycol isn't particularly volatile so it stays in the rubber. After the first 6 months when you refresh the sealant, the sealant is in the rubber...about 4 oz per tire...along with the new sealant. Your tires have gained 8 oz of weight in 6 months. Another 6 months, another 4 oz. And so on. There's a limit to how much glycol can dissolve into the tire but I have no idea what it is. Basically, any weight savings over a tubed tire...which is debatable because tubeless tires tend to be heavier...is quickly lost from carrying around the "lost" sealant in the rubber matrix of the tire.

Frankly, given the difficulty of mounting the tires, the need for constant maintenance of those difficult to mount tires, the possibility rim damage, the "loss" of sealant and attendant weight gain, plus the inability to repair a flat on the road, I have a very hard time seeing any "advantages".
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Old 04-24-17, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Of course you could use sealant, such as Slime, in tubes to get the same protection against flats. The sealant in the tubeless negates any weight savings of not using a tube as well.

As for no pinch flats, you can avoid that problem by keeping your tires inflated so that the tire doesn't bottom out on impacts. And, while you may get a bit better traction at lower pressures, the possibility of burping a tubeless tire and the possibility of damaging a rim when the tire does bottom out increases significantly.

And there's the maintenance issue of the sealant that you failed to mention. Sealants have traditionally needed to be "refreshed" every 6 months or so because they "dry out". My question on this issue has always been, how? If the tire isn't constantly leaking air somewhere...not normal diffusion but a serious leak...how does a liquid get out of the rubber container? While rubber is permeable to gases, it's not permeable to liquids...think old tires that serve as perfect mosquito breeding grounds. Where does it "dry" to?

The answer lies in the sealant itself. It contains propylene glycol (or other glycols) which dissolve into the rubber. This problem used to be manifest by blistering of tires when used with early tubeless set ups. The rubber used is a bit better now but the glycols still dissolve into the rubber.

Propylene glycol isn't particularly volatile so it stays in the rubber. After the first 6 months when you refresh the sealant, the sealant is in the rubber...about 4 oz per tire...along with the new sealant. Your tires have gained 8 oz of weight in 6 months. Another 6 months, another 4 oz. And so on. There's a limit to how much glycol can dissolve into the tire but I have no idea what it is. Basically, any weight savings over a tubed tire...which is debatable because tubeless tires tend to be heavier...is quickly lost from carrying around the "lost" sealant in the rubber matrix of the tire.

Frankly, given the difficulty of mounting the tires, the need for constant maintenance of those difficult to mount tires, the possibility rim damage, the "loss" of sealant and attendant weight gain, plus the inability to repair a flat on the road, I have a very hard time seeing any "advantages".
Yikes, where to start. No pinch flats with tubeless. Bonus. Never burped a tire, ever. Great. Some tires do seep. So maybe 3-4 times a year, add some sealant. Through the valve, takes 5 minutes. It's not dissolving, it is evaporating. Lower rolling resistance. Nice. Lower psi, so awesome. Weighed a fat bike tube? Mine was one pound. Weigh a 29er tube, do you even own one? Not light. Mount the tires with a floor pump, no issues. Less maintenance than fixing a flat trail side. No flats, no need to fix. Some do carry a plug kit for bigger holes. See a thorn sticking out, pull it, spin the tire, fixed. Easy. Weight may be a wash, but I'm not one to weigh stuff. The real question is, how many miles do you have running a proper tubeless setup, with good tires and rims? Guessing NONE. Maybe once you have actually tried it you might have a different opinion. No one who has switched to tubeless has said, gee I wish I could go back to tubes. They rock for mt biking. And almost all of the say + $ 1,000 mt bikes sold in the last few years come tubeless ready. Hmmm. And with disc brakes. Yowzer.
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Old 04-24-17, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Yikes, where to start. No pinch flats with tubeless.
I've never pinch flatted a tubed tire because I run them at a pressure so that they won't pinch flat. My rims are far more valuable to me than any inconvenience of running higher pressures. I've ridden on tires that were going flat and never found that riding a flat tire was that much better. They tend to wallow in corners.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Never burped a tire, ever. Great.
Neither have I but I've seen people burp them. Their ride is pretty much over.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Some tires do seep. So maybe 3-4 times a year, add some sealant. Through the valve, takes 5 minutes. It's not dissolving, it is evaporating.
Here's my very large problem with tubeless. Put water into a balloon. Let it sit for several years. When you come back, if the balloon hasn't deteriorated, how much water has "seeped" out? None! Because rubber is impermeable to water. It's only semi-impermeable to gases and less impermeable to some gases...carbon dioxide, for example.

The sealant isn't water, either...at least not completely water. Glycols don't "evaporate" at room temperature very easily. An open bottle of ethylene or propylene glycol basically doesn't evaporate in months or years.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Lower psi, so awesome. Weighed a fat bike tube? Mine was one pound. Weigh a 29er tube, do you even own one? Not light.
Again, I've ridden on flat tires. It's not something that I find useful. The bike wallows in corners and the rims are in danger of damage due to impacts. Wheels are way more expensive than tubes or tires.

29er tubes come in a wide range of weights just like most tubes. Go cheap and they weigh more. Go more expensive and they weigh less. QBP's house brands run from 176g to almost 200g for expensive to cheap. That's about 6 ounces which isn't too much more than the sealant and less than the second treatment of sealant plus the first treatment.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Mount the tires with a floor pump, no issues.
Really?! I've been involved in mounting tubeless at my local co-op. It's difficult enough with a compressor. I couldn't imagine trying to get a high flow and high volume of air into tire quickly enough with a floor pump. I'm not sure I would even try.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Less maintenance than fixing a flat trail side. No flats, no need to fix.
Except the "refreshing" of the sealant every 3 months...I guess I was being generous with the 6 month time frame. And they can flat. I've been on rides where the guy with tubeless flatted. It was a long walk.

Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Some do carry a plug kit for bigger holes. See a thorn sticking out, pull it, spin the tire, fixed. Easy. Weight may be a wash, but I'm not one to weigh stuff. The real question is, how many miles do you have running a proper tubeless setup, with good tires and rims? Guessing NONE.
No, I don't use tubeless. After all the sturm und drang I've witnessed with tubeless, I have no desire to make my life that complicated. I've seen blistered tires due to the sealant delaminating the rubber. I've been involved in a 2 hour tubeless tire changing session with 4 other people...most of the time was taken up with just getting the damed tire off the rim. I've seen burped tires because the person was running way too low a pressure. I've seen tubeless go flat on trails and the attendant mess that went with trying to fix the problem. Worse yet was the mess that was involved when the need to fix flats following the installation of a tube arose.

I don't need to ride on the tires and invest a whole lot of money in the tools to use tubeless to see the problems involved. I've experienced it vicariously through other people's experiences...as well as a few personal ones. People are real good at pointing out the benefits but really bad at pointing out the pitfalls.
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Old 04-24-17, 10:38 AM
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[No, I don't use tubeless. After all the sturm und drang I've witnessed with tubeless, I have no desire to make my life that complicated. I've seen blistered tires due to the sealant delaminating the rubber. I've been involved in a 2 hour tubeless tire changing session with 4 other people...most of the time was taken up with just getting the damed tire off the rim. I've seen burped tires because the person was running way too low a pressure. I've seen tubeless go flat on trails and the attendant mess that went with trying to fix the problem. Worse yet was the mess that was involved when the need to fix flats following the installation of a tube arose.

I don't need to ride on the tires and invest a whole lot of money in the tools to use tubeless to see the problems involved. I've experienced it vicariously through other people's experiences...as well as a few personal ones. People are real good at pointing out the benefits but really bad at pointing out the pitfalls.][/QUOTE]
So never ridden tubeless. Hmmm. Not an armchair quarterback here. Maybe actually try it. Works for me. YRMV. 28 riders for a 2.5 hr ride yesterday. No flats, no pinch flats. Tubeless, not an issue.
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Old 04-25-17, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
People are real good at pointing out the benefits but really bad at pointing out the pitfalls.
I agree. Tubeless is trendy, but there are pros and cons and the question I often ask myself is whether it's worth the hassle to convert any of my bikes away from tubes. So far, the answer's been "no". However, I do plan my first-ever tubeless build soon -- mainly, I want to learn how.

One pitfall is that tubeless adds "friction" to tire and rim swaps by making them more difficult to perform. One of my neighbors, for example, changed his mountain-bike tires ahead of a race last summer, then he changed them back, then he swapped in some 2.2" street tires, then he swapped his front tire for a stronger tread, then he changed his commuter-bike to see how he liked cyclocross tires on it, then he swapped _both_ his bikes over to studded tires during the winter, and during the winter he broke three or four spokes spokes -- one at a time -- and had to remove the tire each time in order to install replacements. Then spring hit, and he's changed his tires again on both bikes to put away the studs and have something suitable for spring.

That's a LOT of tire changes in less than a year's time.

I "get" that tubeless has benefits. I just think those benefits are oversold in relation to the tradeoffs.
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Old 04-25-17, 06:55 AM
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I've never ridden tubeless either. Was talking to someone about it, and I think he said he carries a spare tube (this was a while ago). If the flat is bad enough, put in tube and finish the ride. Makes it sound like regular flat repair, but I wasn't aware of mounting/dismounting issues. Is it a bit like car tire work? That's a fair amount of work (and I've done it by hand several times).

I usually ride my 25mm tires between 60 and 90 psi. 90 is a bit rough, 60 is nice and smooth. I worry about pinch flats but the only time it's happened was at 100psi (lesson learned). I weigh 180lb hence high pressures with skinny tires.

Curious about this issue, as I've been tempted to get a fat bike but I'm not sure I want to deal with tubeless. I've yet to flat on the trail but I usually run 40psi in my MTB tires (for fear of a flat).
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Old 04-25-17, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by supton View Post
I've never ridden tubeless either. Was talking to someone about it, and I think he said he carries a spare tube (this was a while ago). If the flat is bad enough, put in tube and finish the ride.
That's a common approach, and it's what I will do when eventually I try out tubeless.

Makes it sound like regular flat repair, but I wasn't aware of mounting/dismounting issues. Is it a bit like car tire work? That's a fair amount of work (and I've done it by hand several times).
I have some Bontrager wheelsets that are tubeless ready. Those rims can be a tight fit, and getting tires on and off can have me reaching for a tire lever sooner rather than later.

On the weekend I swapped some new 26er tires on my Dexter. Standard rims, but tubeless-rated tires. The job was not awful, but I did have to work the tire levers a bit. Just was a tight fit.

It is not like car tires and needing a machine. It's more that you might reach for your tire lever sooner.

I actually prefer the more precise fit with tubeless-rated rims and tires, even though I'm running tubes in them.

Curious about this issue, as I've been tempted to get a fat bike but I'm not sure I want to deal with tubeless.
You can get tubes for fat bike tires, though I do feel that fat bikes are a compelling example of when tubeless makes a ton of sense ... by eliminating a ton of weight .

I've a friend who runs tubeless on his 27.5+ bike. He just pays the shop to set his tires up. It's not like he ever has trouble and has to run the bike back to have the tires remounted. He has so little trouble that he doesn't even bother to carry a spare tube anymore. He just accepts the small risk of having to walk back to his car.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:21 AM
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Thanks Jonathon. That makes me leery: I can walk but not sure how many miles I want to walk back to my car--sometimes it's a few miles if I'm not careful. But I hear what you are saying about weight. Will sit back and absorb more info on this one.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
So never ridden tubeless. Hmmm. Not an armchair quarterback here. Maybe actually try it. Works for me. YRMV. 28 riders for a 2.5 hr ride yesterday. No flats, no pinch flats. Tubeless, not an issue.
Do you try every single bicycle related item that comes along just so that you aren't an "armchair quarterback"? Your wallet must be very thin indeed. Tubeless is a rather large investment in time and money to just "try it". As with all things on my bicycles, I look at the trade off between investment and benefit before I invest in a technology. It it makes my life easier by reducing the amount of maintenance or if it is a very large improvement over existing tech, I'll spring for it. Sometimes, as is the case with discs, I'm forced into it even though the technology isn't as "wonderful" as everyone says it is. Tubeless just hasn't delivered, in my opinion, on being easier to use or providing a much better improvement of existing technology.

That proves nothing...especially in Massachusetts where the availability of plants with pokey bits is rather low. I've been on lots of rides with 28 people and haven't had flats as well. I've also been on rides with 4 people who got more flats in 20 miles than 100 people would get in a lifetime...including the guy with supposedly invulnerable tubeless tires. I, on the other hand, using tubed tires got zero flats.

However on the same ride a year later after bragging about my tires' invulnerability, I stopped counting at 63 punctures on one tire. Never tempt the Goathead God!
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Old 04-25-17, 07:27 AM
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The more miles you ride, the better tubeless is. If you only ride once a week and don't get many flats, it's not worth the hassle.
Compared with tubes there's more setup and maintenance, but those are time based, not distance. In exchange, you rarely have to repair a flat in the field.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:34 AM
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Seems ironic that those who have never done something seem to be the one's telling everyone else all about it.


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Old 04-25-17, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
I have some Bontrager wheelsets that are tubeless ready. Those rims can be a tight fit, and getting tires on and off can have me reaching for a tire lever sooner rather than later.

On the weekend I swapped some new 26er tires on my Dexter. Standard rims, but tubeless-rated tires. The job was not awful, but I did have to work the tire levers a bit. Just was a tight fit.

It is not like car tires and needing a machine. It's more that you might reach for your tire lever sooner.

I actually prefer the more precise fit with tubeless-rated rims and tires, even though I'm running tubes in them.
What really sealed the deal against tubeless for me was helping someone at my co-op change a tire. The tire was beyond difficult to take off. We had to resort to Park TL-5 levers which are metal and 8" long to get the bead away from the rim. The tire had a kind of o-ring on the bead that fit into a channel on the rim. It took 4 people plus the guy with the tire a couple of hours to get it off and I was afraid of damaging the rim the whole time. We broke several plastic levers before we got out the metal ones. That seems to be an outlier but I've witness others struggling to remove tubeless as well. The difficulty of installation and removal doesn't exactly inspire confidence for doing the same thing in the field.


Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
You can get tubes for fat bike tires, though I do feel that fat bikes are a compelling example of when tubeless makes a ton of sense ... by eliminating a ton of weight .
Here, as with smaller tires, I question if there is really any weight loss. A road tire uses about 2 oz of sealant which is about the same weight as a tube. A mountain bike uses 4 oz of sealant (I've seen higher amounts recommended as well) so that the sealant covers the inside of the tire. A fat bike would need enough sealant to provide coverage for a surface area that is far larger so would need at least twice that of a mountain bike and probably more. 6 to 8 oz of sealant isn't that much less than the weight of a fat tire tube. Plus there is the weight of the rim strip which is much heavier than the rim strips for tubed bikes.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:41 AM
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Tubeless is trendy, stupid cars have been falling for it over 60 years now.

Stronger rims, lighter weight, better flat protection, what's not to like?

Most interesting bikeforum fact on tubeless:
The biggest tubeless attacker on BF, the one that writes 1000 words screeds trying to debunk tubeless. He's never run tubeless, never built up a tubeless rim, never sealed a tubeless tyre (but he claims the same sealant he uses in his tubes for years at a time only last 3 months in tubeless applications).

There's a reason why tubeless is ubiquitous in mountain biking and is taking over road bikes, it's better. Really, it is that simple....
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Old 04-25-17, 07:43 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Do you try every single bicycle related item that comes along just so that you aren't an "armchair quarterback"? Your wallet must be very thin indeed. Tubeless is a rather large investment in time and money to just "try it". As with all things on my bicycles, I look at the trade off between investment and benefit before I invest in a technology. It it makes my life easier by reducing the amount of maintenance or if it is a very large improvement over existing tech, I'll spring for it. Sometimes, as is the case with discs, I'm forced into it even though the technology isn't as "wonderful" as everyone says it is. Tubeless just hasn't delivered, in my opinion, on being easier to use or providing a much better improvement of existing technology.

That proves nothing...especially in Massachusetts where the availability of plants with pokey bits is rather low. I've been on lots of rides with 28 people and haven't had flats as well. I've also been on rides with 4 people who got more flats in 20 miles than 100 people would get in a lifetime...including the guy with supposedly invulnerable tubeless tires. I, on the other hand, using tubed tires got zero flats.

However on the same ride a year later after bragging about my tires' invulnerability, I stopped counting at 63 punctures on one tire. Never tempt the Goathead God!
I don't try to make qualified judgements on stuff I haven't tried. That is the point I'm trying to make. Ya know, experience. The idea is not an investment. The set up comes on " most" mt bikes new these days. Maybe actually try before saying you don't like it? I would rate it up there with disc, clutch derailleurs and 1 X ( sort of) as one of THE best improvements to mt biking in the last say 5 years. Its that good. I've had 1 flat in 4 years. MA has plenty of pokey bits, although not the brutal goat heads, yowzer. Can't even imagine. We have all kinds of thorns, blackberry bushes and this nasty stuff called bull briar. An invasive that is spreading and has a 1/2 " spike every 6 " on some long and twisty vines. The ability to run lower pressure is awesome as well. No need to run too high a psi to prevent pinch flats. Yes a somewhat stiffer sidewall, but paired with a 30-35 mm wide rim, great traction and grip. But you might have to go 27.5 or 29er, stock new 26ers are not that common. YRMV.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:48 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
...Here, as with smaller tires, I question if there is really any weight loss. A road tire uses about 2 oz of sealant which is about the same weight as a tube. A mountain bike uses 4 oz of sealant (I've seen higher amounts recommended as well) so that the sealant covers the inside of the tire. A fat bike would need enough sealant to provide coverage for a surface area that is far larger so would need at least twice that of a mountain bike and probably more. 6 to 8 oz of sealant isn't that much less than the weight of a fat tire tube. Plus there is the weight of the rim strip which is much heavier than the rim strips for tubed bikes.
LOL, this is the guy! He's never heard of TR tyres and seals them has if they are tube tyres. It's just get silly, he's so far off the mark there's no point in trying to help....
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Old 04-25-17, 07:48 AM
  #22  
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Do they flats really go away that well, so that you can toss away your bike mounted tire pump? And just do tire work at home? No tire repairs in the field, mostly because they don't happen, and also because they're too hard otherwise?

Comparing against cars I don't think is a fair comparison. Maybe it is and I don't see it... All my vehicles carry spares--two carry full sized spares, and could be driven indefinitely on the spares, one unfortunately is a doughnut. None get used frequently but point is, that's their backup. Ten minute swap. Carrying around a spare tube is my bicycle backup, but none of my bicycle wheels need 2' tire levers (like my car tires do).

Edit: in 8 years of riding (~8kmiles?) I've had one flat. It was a pinch flat, and I had over-inflated my tires that day. Tube tires of course.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:52 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
...The tire had a kind of o-ring on the bead that fit into a channel on the rim. It took 4 people plus the guy with the tire a couple of hours to get it off ...
I dimly recall that there were several different standards back in the day. Hopefully the one you did battle with has faded into oblivion.

I admit, I haven't kept up with tubeless. I was sort of up to speed maybe seven or eight years ago, but I haven't kept up.

Currently I'm ordering parts to convert my commuter bike to WTB Horizon 650b tires that are 47mm wide. Those tires are tubeless ready and I need to build a wheelset for them anyway, so two of my side-goals for this project are to: A) Learn to build wheels, and B) Learn how to setup tubeless.

For me right now, it's more about the learning and the wanting to broaden my experience.
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Old 04-25-17, 07:58 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
What really sealed the deal against tubeless for me was helping someone at my co-op change a tire. The tire was beyond difficult to take off. We had to resort to Park TL-5 levers which are metal and 8" long to get the bead away from the rim. The tire had a kind of o-ring on the bead that fit into a channel on the rim. It took 4 people plus the guy with the tire a couple of hours to get it off and I was afraid of damaging the rim the whole time. We broke several plastic levers before we got out the metal ones. That seems to be an outlier but I've witness others struggling to remove tubeless as well. The difficulty of installation and removal doesn't exactly inspire confidence for doing the same thing in the field.




Here, as with smaller tires, I question if there is really any weight loss. A road tire uses about 2 oz of sealant which is about the same weight as a tube. A mountain bike uses 4 oz of sealant (I've seen higher amounts recommended as well) so that the sealant covers the inside of the tire. A fat bike would need enough sealant to provide coverage for a surface area that is far larger so would need at least twice that of a mountain bike and probably more. 6 to 8 oz of sealant isn't that much less than the weight of a fat tire tube. Plus there is the weight of the rim strip which is much heavier than the rim strips for tubed bikes.
What tire and rim? Sometimes there are some issues, not any more with tubed stuff trying to get it to fit. I run maxxis tires. Set up with a floor pump and put on by hand. Your one example is not the way of real life. At all. The idea of tubeless is that there is a shelf that the rim has and the tire buts up against. To get the tire off, put both beads down into the center channel and then get one side off, not rocket science. At most I have used 1 plastic tires lever. I never use 8oz in a fat bike tire, and the tube I took out of the Farley weighed 1 pound. What kind of fatbike and tires do you use? My jackalope rims ( 80 mm) use 2 wraps of 22 mm wide stans tape. Lighter than velox. FYI. Center channel spoke beds are awesome. What kinds of rims are you using on your fatbike? Most folks running fat use tubeless. FYI.
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Old 04-25-17, 08:03 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
I dimly recall that there were several different standards back in the day. Hopefully the one you did battle with has faded into oblivion.

I admit, I haven't kept up with tubeless. I was sort of up to speed maybe seven or eight years ago, but I haven't kept up.

Currently I'm ordering parts to convert my commuter bike to WTB Horizon 650b tires that are 47mm wide. Those tires are tubeless ready and I need to build a wheelset for them anyway, so two of my side-goals for this project are to: A) Learn to build wheels, and B) Learn how to setup tubeless.

For me right now, it's more about the learning and the wanting to broaden my experience.
Important info, there are ideal widths of rims for the width of tires you plan to run. 47 mm wide tires, going to go smaller or bigger? Look at something in the 30 mm width rim for your tires. And what psi are planning to run? Some tires and rims have a low max limit if not road/commuter setup.
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