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Counterfeit Phil Wood?

Old 05-12-17, 08:23 PM
  #1  
crewdoglm
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Counterfeit Phil Wood?

Unbelievable. Somebody, I'm thinking, had the temerity to attempt counterfeit Phil hubs. I would not have believed it unless I saw these ebay pics and I'm still incredulous I must say. These just do not look right at all to me. Can anyone confirm the existence elsewhere of fake Phils? Check it out. Posting the photo. More on the ebay page.
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Old 05-12-17, 08:50 PM
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OK, you first. What's "wrong" with them?
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Old 05-12-17, 08:55 PM
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That seller has over 2000 transactions and 100% rating. Hard to believe it's an intentional deception.
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Old 05-12-17, 09:37 PM
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They're all over the web-- just Google chromed high flange phil wood hub
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Old 05-12-17, 09:49 PM
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Buy Phil Wood Front High Flange Track Hub - 36 hole - Silver<br>Free Shipping Worldwide (Phil Wood Front High Flange Track Hubs - 36h) from www.AVT.Bike

cheaper and free shipping
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Old 05-13-17, 09:11 AM
  #6  
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Serious question?

Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
OK, you first. What's "wrong" with them?
Look at the bolts, the lock ring, the Phil signature - all not right. The spoke holes on a true Phil hub are countersunk slightly whereas these are not. The end caps are totally not Phil Wood. To me it's glaringly obvious that these are wrong. I guess I thought someone else would be similarly surprised at an attempt to counterfeit a Phil. And yes, I'm well aware that many Phil Wood hubs are sold on Ebay. I've just personally never seen a fake one.

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Old 05-13-17, 09:12 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
That seller has over 2000 transactions and 100% rating. Hard to believe it's an intentional deception.
I don't think it's intentional either. Those are fake hubs though.
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Old 05-13-17, 09:15 AM
  #8  
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Yes thank you I get that Phil's are sold on Ebay and moreover that AVT is an excellent bike shop. (I'm a repeat offender with them.) The point of the post is that someone attempted to COPY a Phil hub i..e, fake, spurious. counterfeit get it? I guess I'm the only person who found that noteworthy. Thanks guys. LOL
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Old 05-13-17, 10:16 AM
  #9  
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They look like the older style Phil hubs.
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Old 05-13-17, 10:23 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by crewdoglm View Post
Look at the bolts, the lock ring, the Phil signature - all not right.
The lock ring specifically in the eBay ad is listed as not being a Phil product, for the signature, google image search brings up variations, and these are listed as NOS, so it's unknown how old they are, so wouldn't count this against them. For the bolts, will give you that, but they are also an easy part to replace.

For them being counterfit, suspect that if they really are vs just being NOS, a lot more would be on eBay, and there would be a lot of talk about them if they really were fakes.
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Old 05-13-17, 11:03 AM
  #11  
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Old, 1st generation Phil, was a stainless steel tube with aluminum flanges added..

I had a QR medium flange rear hub..
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Old 05-13-17, 11:29 AM
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We could always ask Peter at Phil Wood. sales@philwood.com
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Old 05-13-17, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Old, 1st generation Phil, was a stainless steel tube with aluminum flanges added..

I had a QR medium flange rear hub..
I had a front wheel with this type of hub. I recall the steel center section rusting so perhaps it was not stainless steel.
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Old 05-13-17, 07:24 PM
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Old Phil Wood hubs are incredibly rust prone in the center section, and the three piece shell just isn't as safe/strong as one piece alloy shells. Phil Wood will actually give you a credit if you ship an old tandem steel center section hub back and buy a new hub. Just to help get you onto a safer hub.

Not surprised that there are people copying Phil Wood hubs. Heck, almost everything sold at at VeloOrange is a ripoff design from something else. That doesn't mean it's not good kit, and most VO product they base their designs on can't be sourced anymore. Still outright counterfeiting is pretty rare in cycling. The abcence of the red plastic netting makes me think not real PW hubs. However, who knows. Maybe PW outsourced or changed endcaps?
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Old 05-13-17, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post
Old Phil Wood hubs are incredibly rust prone in the center section, and the three piece shell just isn't as safe/strong as one piece alloy shells. Phil Wood will actually give you a credit if you ship an old tandem steel center section hub back and buy a new hub. Just to help get you onto a safer hub.

Not surprised that there are people copying Phil Wood hubs. Heck, almost everything sold at at VeloOrange is a ripoff design from something else. That doesn't mean it's not good kit, and most VO product they base their designs on can't be sourced anymore. Still outright counterfeiting is pretty rare in cycling. The abcence of the red plastic netting makes me think not real PW hubs. However, who knows. Maybe PW outsourced or changed endcaps?
Could be, Phil Wood himself (R.I.P.) passed the business and branding on to a buyer.

Only way to know for sure would be to ask PW.
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Old 05-13-17, 08:54 PM
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Don't look like any Phil Wood hubs I've ever seen.
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Old 05-13-17, 09:35 PM
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This is a 1997 hub on one of my bikes.
The "Phil" signature is much smaller.
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Old 05-14-17, 09:56 AM
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I got a 48 hole freewheel threaded hub shell , PW Co put a 126 axle assembly in it.

I put a leather hub polisher around it ..

and had no trouble with the small % of Iron in the high nickel content alloy making rust pimples..

was my bomb proof touring rear wheel for 10 years..



...
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Old 05-14-17, 10:24 AM
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Anybody tried contacting Phil Wood? I'm sure they would be interested if someone is selling counterfeit.

Ben
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Old 05-14-17, 07:51 PM
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Contacting Phil...

Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Anybody tried contacting Phil Wood? I'm sure they would be interested if someone is selling counterfeit.

Ben
I may do that for curiosity' sake. PW is pretty responsive in my experience especially if you have a rap sheet for buying their stuff. Those bolts are identical to those I see on cheap Taiwanese fixie hubs and the end caps are really suspect. It just looks cheap and that is not an adjective anyone has ever applied to PW stuff in my memory.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:20 PM
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Phil Wood hubs in my observation, have spoke flanges that are rounded and don't have flats on them.
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Old 05-13-20, 10:05 AM
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so... what was the verdict?
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Old 05-13-20, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post
Old Phil Wood hubs are incredibly rust prone in the center section, and the three piece shell just isn't as safe/strong as one piece alloy shells. Phil Wood will actually give you a credit if you ship an old tandem steel center section hub back and buy a new hub. Just to help get you onto a safer hub.

Not surprised that there are people copying Phil Wood hubs. Heck, almost everything sold at at VeloOrange is a ripoff design from something else. That doesn't mean it's not good kit, and most VO product they base their designs on can't be sourced anymore. Still outright counterfeiting is pretty rare in cycling. The abcence of the red plastic netting makes me think not real PW hubs. However, who knows. Maybe PW outsourced or changed endcaps?

While I completely agree with the rust issues on the first gen hubs I strongly disagree with any claim of "safety" being more or less. I've worked in a number of shops that sold Phils for decades and have never even heard third hand of any safety concerns or incidents. IMO this kind of suggestion is just wrong. Thank gosh we aren't talking about anything actually serious, like C-19 as example. This is how false news starts. Andy
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Old 05-13-20, 08:52 PM
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I can totally understand if someone were to counterfeit a Phil hub. There is just something so sexy about that logo. I don't know why but it caused me to spend great deals of money on a bike I don't ride enough. It is simple and understated but so so good looking.
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Old 05-14-20, 10:07 AM
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People are counter-fitting this heavy, overpriced junk? (ducks)
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