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Suntour Shifter Compatibility?

Old 05-22-17, 10:50 PM
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Suntour Shifter Compatibility?

Suntour Accushift 3x7 bar end shifters.
Are they compatable with a SRAM X7 or X9 rear derailleur (I forget which one it is) in the indexed shifting mode?
If the rear shifter is not compatable, what NON-SHIMANO derailleur would you suggest?
I know the Suntour Mt. Tech would work, but I cannot find one in my area.
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Old 05-22-17, 10:58 PM
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No. The SRAM "X" series derailleurs require roughly twice as much cable pull per shift than current Shimano-style derailleurs. Accushift used roughly the same amount of cable travel as Shimano, but SunTour had its quirks- inconsistent spacing between cogs for one. (I think... SunTour Accushift is 30 years old now. That's some dusty memories.)
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Old 05-23-17, 05:23 AM
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Suntour 6spd had similar cable pull as Shimano 7spd, -for the lower half of the gears. With progressively less acceptable alignment for the higher gears.
plus you have the missing gear to deal with too.

I've done it before, with some dremeling to get extra range out of the lever for the last cog, and some custom cog spacing. Never doing that again.

Short answer:
NO
for Index mode they're compatible with nothing except a Suntour derailer
-with- a Suntour freewheel - a shimano freewheel won't work right, the spacing will be off.

Just use it in Friction Mode
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Old 05-23-17, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
Suntour Accushift 3x7 bar end shifters.
Are they compatable with a SRAM X7 or X9 rear derailleur (I forget which one it is) in the indexed shifting mode?
No. An Accushift shifter won't index anything but an Accushift derailleur. And to get it just right, you'd want an Accushift freewheel too since cog spacing is slightly different (non-uniform).

Because Accushift freewheels and cassettes are scarce, I ditched my '91 Cannondale's SunTour drivetrain entirely. It was a lot easier to go with Shimano (or SRAM) shifters/derailleurs/freewheel than to track down an Accushift freewheel.

Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
If the rear shifter is not compatable, what NON-SHIMANO derailleur would you suggest?
I know the Suntour Mt. Tech would work, but I cannot find one in my area.
I'm not sure there was an Accushift-compatible Mountech. Mountech derailleurs came out in the early '80s, well before Accushift indexing hit the market in '87. Maybe you can find a SunTour XCE, XCM, or XCT Accushift rear derailleur from the early '90s. (There are a few on eBay.) Those were common on 3x7 Accushift setups at the time.

I don't think I still have my Cannondale's old XCM derailleur, but if I do, you're welcome to it.
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Old 05-23-17, 01:00 PM
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As others have suggested possibly one of the XC series will work. However you are working with components that will be increasingly more difficult to find, especially a freewheel. It might be a good time to re-evaluate your drivetrain. Find an early 90's deore or XT rear derailleur, shimano 7 speed thumb shifters and any compatible shimano freewheel.

If you don't like the new cheap freewheels, you can look for a Sachs Aris LY9x 7 speed freewheel and run it with shimano shifters.

John
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Old 05-23-17, 02:49 PM
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Thanks.
The freewheel I used a 13/32 7 speed SunRace when I upgraded from 6 to 7 speeds in the back.
I put a Sram x9 derailleur in the back, the original Shimano Exage was sluggish, but still operational, however, it would not handle the extra gear. The Shimano Exage 3x6 thumb shifters were replaced by a set of Sram x3 trigger shifters ... indexed shifting on both ends now!
The original Exage BioPace 28/38/48 crank was swapped out for a 22/32/48 Bontrager. I still need to find a 38 or 39 or 40 tooth big ring for the front. I am not racing, and my knees will not push a 48 ring anymore, unless I am going down a long hill.
Brakes were changed from Exage canti's to DiaComp canti's in front, and SACHS 5000 canti's in back. The two finger Exage brake levers were swapped out in favor of 4 finger Sun Tour XC

From the sounds of things, it appears converting to a drop bar is not going to be a viable option.
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Old 05-23-17, 03:17 PM
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Converting to drop bars is doable, but not with the Accushift shifter + SRAM derailleur combo you proposed. It won't index. It might not even work in friction mode because of SRAM's 1:1 cable pull ratio; the shifter might not pull enough cable to swing the derailleur all the way across the freewheel.

Replace the SRAM rear derailleur with a derailleur that doesn't require so much cable pull and you'd be able to run the Accushift bar end shifter in friction mode. (Unless you're riding really rough stuff, it's a piece o' cake to shift 7-speed friction.) Most derailleurs will work in friction mode -- Shimano, SunTour, Campagnolo, etc. Lots of options. Almost anything but SRAM 1:1 derailleurs. (Unless you want to get really funky with a cable pull adapter like a demultiplicator or a Travel Agent.)
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Old 05-23-17, 03:52 PM
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Is the 13-32 Sunrace a 7 speed cassette or freewheel? I have never seen a 13-32 Sunrace freewheel, I have 13-30 Sunrace freewheels.

I only ask because it is possible to reduce the spacer width in a 7 speed cassette to run 7 speeds with an 8 speed shifter and then you could get an Ultegra 8 speed bar end shifter. A freewheel is more difficult because of the freewheel body shoulder. I have never attempted to place a spacer between the freehub body and the 32t cog.

In theory it "may" be possible to place a smaller cog between the freewheel body and the 32t cog without any spacers and then sand down all the spacers to the thinner 8 speed spacing. I don't know how well the lockring will work or will another spacer be needed there.

John

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Old 05-24-17, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Is the 13-32 Sunrace a 7 speed cassette or freewheel? I have never seen a 13-32 Sunrace freewheel, I have 13-30 Sunrace freewheels.

I only ask because it is possible to reduce the spacer width in a 7 speed cassette to run 7 speeds with an 8 speed shifter and then you could get an Ultegra 8 speed bar end shifter. A freewheel is more difficult because of the freewheel body shoulder. I have never attempted to place a spacer between the freehub body and the 32t cog.

In theory it "may" be possible to place a smaller cog between the freewheel body and the 32t cog without any spacers and then sand down all the spacers to the thinner 8 speed spacing. I don't know how well the lockring will work or will another spacer be needed there.

John
Definitely a freewheel. As far as I know, the hub is original to the bike, which is a 1989.
I'm not sure if freehubs using a cassette were even invented then.

I'll double check the big sprocket tooth count. I may be mistaken on it being a 32.
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Old 05-24-17, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
Definitely a freewheel. As far as I know, the hub is original to the bike, which is a 1989.
I'm not sure if freehubs using a cassette were even invented then.

I'll double check the big sprocket tooth count. I may be mistaken on it being a 32.
My 86 Rockhopper came with a 6 speed Uniglide Free Hub, as my friends matched pair of 87's.
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Old 05-25-17, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
Definitely a freewheel. As far as I know, the hub is original to the bike, which is a 1989.
I'm not sure if freehubs using a cassette were even invented then.

I'll double check the big sprocket tooth count. I may be mistaken on it being a 32.
30t or 32t is inconsequential. I just wanted to make sure it was a freewheel. You will probably have a tough time finding 7 speed Shimano bar end shifters to use with a Shimano rear derailleur. Likewise, finding a Jtek Shiftmate Y is equally impossible.

But I believe you can convert 7 speed Shimano downtube shifters to bar end shifters using a bar end pod from Rivendell. I don't know everything involved with the conversion, but I'm sure others here have done it. Then you just need a Shimano RD and downtube shifters.

John

Edit Added: There is one more potential work around. Use 8 speed Bar End shifters and slightly alter the cable routing. The tough part is determining how much to move the cable attach point and how creative you can get; i.e. drill through the cable mounting bolt??? You are only .2mm off on the cog spacing from 7 speed to 8 speed, but over the entire freewheel it may not run clean enough at the outer cogs. You can look up alternate cable routing to understand the principle involved. It is primarily used with old Dura Ace shifters to non-Dura Ace rear derailleurs. Basically the closer you move the attach point toward the parallelogram the more derailleur movement per shifter click, the further away the less the derailleur moves for each shifter click. I imagine someone could mathematically calculate the attach point.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 05-25-17 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 05-25-17, 10:08 AM
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Yep. I was mistaken. It is s 14/34 freewheel.
I've seen those bar end conversion parts. Something to keep in mind.
Maybe a upgrade to 8 speed would be warranted.
If not for having to spread the rear, and new wheels, I'd consider a 1x10 or 1x11 setup.
Of course I'll need new wheels in a year or two anyway ...
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Old 05-25-17, 11:24 AM
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So - if you're attached to 7 speed and the SRAM derailleur, I think you're in trouble. If you move to something with Shimano-compatible cable pull (say Microshift?), you have many options.


First though, 8 speed to 10 speed is all the same freehub - no need to spread dropouts more for 10sp if 8sp fits, the spacing is just narrower. If you upgrade to 8sp, it's no harder to go to 10sp.

Second, Sunrace Stem Shifters at Universal Cycles - Using Shimano-compatible cable pull

They have a bunch of friction, 7 & 8 speed shifters that would work for a road bike (either stem, downtube, or bar end) for < $60. Some of them are Shimano, some Sunrace, might be a Microshift in there.
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Old 05-25-17, 05:12 PM
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Whether you go to 8 or 9 speed is probably more about availability and economy of parts. Also having an extra gear or two may help fill in a gap you don't like with the 7 speed. I'm less enthusiastic with 10 speed as I will never take advantage of an 11-12-13, or even an 11-13. They are great if you are trying to maximize your performance and have the legs. Coming from a 14, only you know if you need a 12 or 13.

Spreading the dropouts is not that big a deal. It really is your best option. I know Microshift is making better stuff, but I'd go with an Ultegra/XT setup. I use 8/9 speed derailleurs with my 7 speed setups. They work great.

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Old 05-25-17, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
......

From the sounds of things, it appears converting to a drop bar is not going to be a viable option.
Why not?
https://www.amazon.com/microSHIFT-Sh...t+shifters+473

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FSRVW52...I29MX5HVQHGGSU

May or may not need a new FD; I'd use this one if needed:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C45HXBS...68GKL7V7&psc=1
The A073 (triple) is intended for 50/39/30; and will work fine with 48/38/28, and probably okay (not sure) with 42/32/22.
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