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Getting rid of play in crankset arms with brand new force gxp crankset

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Getting rid of play in crankset arms with brand new force gxp crankset

Old 05-23-17, 01:19 PM
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BazookaFro
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Getting rid of play in crankset arms with brand new force gxp crankset

So I have recently been creating a parts list for a sscx bike over the last couple weeks. I have finally got all the parts together but within an hour I have already ran into a problem. After installing the crank set there is a noticeable amount of play in the crank arms(a small amount, but play that I do not feel in my rival cranks on another bike) setup of these cranks seems so simple, and the only troubleshooting step in srams manual is doing nothing to help (i have removed and re-greased the spindles multiple times over) wondering if anyone has any advice on how to resolve this. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 05-23-17, 01:23 PM
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Play in both arms?

I'd guess that's a bad bottom bracket.
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Old 05-23-17, 01:36 PM
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yes play in both arms, but a brand new bottom bracket out of the box? I guess its always a possibility.
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Old 05-23-17, 02:05 PM
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Sounds like you installed things incorrectly. Did you buy the correct bb for your frame? Are your cranks bottoming out before they tighten fully?

What type of BB? Square taper? Hollowtech? Octalink?
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Old 05-23-17, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Sounds like you installed things incorrectly. Did you buy the correct bb for your frame? Are your cranks bottoming out before they tighten fully?

What type of BB? Square taper? Hollowtech? Octalink?
frame is a 2011 salsa chili con crosso, 68mm english bb shell, 68mm gxp bottom bracket. so I mean as far as compatibility everything seems correct. as far as bottoming out is concerned, I am tightening to the point that i can go no further without fear of breaking something(no, I am not using a torque wrench)
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Old 05-23-17, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BazookaFro View Post
frame is a 2011 salsa chili con crosso, 68mm english bb shell, 68mm gxp bottom bracket. so I mean as far as compatibility everything seems correct. as far as bottoming out is concerned, I am tightening to the point that i can go no further without fear of breaking something(no, I am not using a torque wrench)
The BB came with spacers right? One for each side? Possibly even 2 for the drive and 1 for the NDS. Did you install them? Did you read the manual when you installed it? Those types of BBs have a fixed width, so the spacers are REQUIRED for anything less than a 73 mm BB... I believe. Could be wrong on the number. But still, definitely need spacers for 68 mm shell.

You know how to tighten the cranks on those BBs right?

Last edited by corrado33; 05-23-17 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 05-23-17, 02:50 PM
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Installing a GXP BB/crank is really straight forward, so I assumed the OP knows how.

You basically just screw in the bottom bracket til its flush to the frame and then tighten it to 40nm. Push the drive side through and use an 8mm to tighten the NDS arm to 40nm. Really simple.

Did you make sure that the drive side ---> was pointing the correct way on installation?

That's the only thing I can think of other than a bad GXP BB. For $20, that's an easy replacement part.
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Old 05-23-17, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2 View Post
Installing a GXP BB/crank is really straight forward, so I assumed the OP knows how.

You basically just screw in the bottom bracket til its flush to the frame and then tighten it to 40nm. Push the drive side through and use an 8mm to tighten the NDS arm to 40nm. Really simple.

Did you make sure that the drive side ---> was pointing the correct way on installation?

That's the only thing I can think of other than a bad GXP BB. For $20, that's an easy replacement part.
Yes, but he NEEDS to install the spacers.

Page 9, step 2... read...

68 mm bottom bracket shells require one 2.5 mm spacer on each
side of the bottom bracket shell.
https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...e_manual_0.pdf
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Old 05-23-17, 03:07 PM
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well I might just have missed something... strange, my soma wolverine is also 68mm yet I don't think it needed any spacers for that install, I always assumed that the spacers 2.5mm brought the width out to 73mm for the wider shells.
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Old 05-23-17, 03:09 PM
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Interesting. Never used them myself and no issues.
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Old 05-23-17, 03:51 PM
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I think the spacers are used with mountain cranks, and the arguments online about this topic are endless... this might be a give up and take it to the lbs kind of situation.
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Old 05-23-17, 05:46 PM
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A few years back I had a similar problem and I to read the installation manual that said use the spacers. The problem was the installation manual was incorrect, there was a typo on when to use the spacers. So if it's 68 mm do not use the spacers. I can't tell you how it resolved itself because I am not sure. I took everything apart and started from scratch and everything went together as it should. I am still baffled on what went wrong.
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Old 05-23-17, 06:12 PM
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i looked at a youtube installation video for those cranks, and as i remembered it, the design of those cranks, unlike shimano, has not provided for variances between various frame manufacturers. they just recommend reinstalling them to 40nm. assuming they were correctly installed, using the proper spacers, if applicable. the idea being that the process of repeatedly torquing to 40nm and removing and retorquing will in essence enlarge the holes in the crank arms allowing proper fit. i'm pretty sure that the spindle is very slightly tapered to accommodate the process.

IMO pretty poor design, BTW campy comes in a close second with their 'wavy washer' kludge.

the only one that does it right, that i know of, is shimano.

i have to admit though that it must not really make much difference inasmuch that they both sell a lot of cranks.

the video.

Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 05-23-17 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 05-23-17, 07:53 PM
  #14  
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A GXP crank cannot have play after installation in a GXP BB. The design will not allow it. The non-drive side spindle and crank arm clamp the non-drive side bearing together. There may be a gap between the drive side and the BB if the spacers are not correct but it cannot move around.
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Old 05-24-17, 03:06 AM
  #15  
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is it, by chance, UP/DOWN play, and not SIDE play? i ran into a cheapo GXP bottom bracket a few months ago... BOTH SIDES had the larger drive side bearing! Not kidding... BOTH bearings measured 24 mm! Ordered from China dealer, via Ebay, at about 1/2 normal cost.... and there were multiple dealers selling them at this reduced cost... i'd imagine some unscrupulous money monger didn't want to lose out after some flunky stuffed the wrong bearings into the BB's, so he sold them to the unwitting dealers of overstock items... all the dealers were NOT Bicycle specific parts sellers, and the three that i contacted didn't begin know what a Bottom Bracket was! Ebay refunded the customer, and the seller didn't want the BB shipped back......

GXP bottom brackets have a 24mm bearing size on the drive side, and a 22mm bearing on the NDS... the 24mm has a nylon sleeve installed... if that sleeve is missing, THAT side can also be loose, UP/DOWN-wise...

as to the spacers provided, they are used when installing a universal BB into a road bike frame, and can be switched around to offset the crank for certain frames, to even up crank-to frame spacing, or to achieve improved chain line alignment.... they are NOT for the MTB installs, only for the ROAD BIKE installs, as far as i've found.

GREASE the seal/covers, to slow bearing failures... GXP BB's last about 1/2 the time of Shimano Hollowtech BB's, btw. My sponsored CX racer has a GXP setup... when the chain rings get worn out to the point of needing replaced, we will be switching to a Hollowtech 2 crankset/BB. The "24mm" bearing is really about a 28 mm bearing ID, and the balls are ridiculously tiny! they trash in short order during CX use.... i've heard of really early failures from folks on this forum, and two other forums, also. One lasted all of two weeks during the winter.

Last edited by maddog34; 05-24-17 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 05-24-17, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
A GXP crank cannot have play after installation in a GXP BB. The design will not allow it. The non-drive side spindle and crank arm clamp the non-drive side bearing together. There may be a gap between the drive side and the BB if the spacers are not correct but it cannot move around.
+1

The left bearing is mechanically clamped between the step on the spindle and the left crank arm. Axial play can only come from one of two places: the crank arm isn't being pulled far enough onto the splines by the tightening bolt, or there's play in the bearing itself. The first is usually a result of incorrect installation, though it's possible that a manufacturing defect on the spindle could be causing the arm to hang up. The second should be detectable by manipulating the inner bearing race with the crank removed.

Spacers are only to be used when mounting GXP MTB cranks in a 68mm BB and are not the solution for this problem.
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Old 05-24-17, 04:41 AM
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gxp washer.jpg

Do you have the splined dust shield(lower left corner of the pic) installed on the non drive side? Ignore the other two items in the picture, they are for press fit installation. The splined dust shield is a necessary spacer between the non-drive crank arm and the bearing. Without it, you will never get rid of the play in the bottom bracket. They have a tendency to fall off and get forgotten during installation.
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Old 05-24-17, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
A few years back I had a similar problem and I to read the installation manual that said use the spacers. The problem was the installation manual was incorrect, there was a typo on when to use the spacers. So if it's 68 mm do not use the spacers. I can't tell you how it resolved itself because I am not sure. I took everything apart and started from scratch and everything went together as it should. I am still baffled on what went wrong.
This is absolutely incorrect. You guys are misunderstanding how these bottom brackets work. If you do not use the spacers on a 68mm shell, there will be ~5mm of space left over since the BB spindle is a FIXED LENGTH. Because of this, you will have play. The BB spindle is built to accommodate the largest BB commonly in use today, 73mm, therefore the spindle has to be long enough to work with that large of a BB shell. If you use a SMALLER BB shell, like a 68, you MUST use spacers to make the bb shell long enough to work with these bottom brackets.

I've already given you the answer you need. Put the spacers on and stop being an idiot.
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Old 05-24-17, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
This is absolutely incorrect. You guys are misunderstanding how these bottom brackets work. If you do not use the spacers on a 68mm shell, there will be ~5mm of space left over since the BB spindle is a FIXED LENGTH. Because of this, you will have play. The BB spindle is built to accommodate the largest BB commonly in use today, 73mm, therefore the spindle has to be long enough to work with that large of a BB shell. If you use a SMALLER BB shell, like a 68, you MUST use spacers to make the bb shell long enough to work with these bottom brackets.

I've already given you the answer you need. Put the spacers on and stop being an idiot.
What you describe is true of Shimano Hollowtech and similar cranks and BBs.
Not true of GXP.
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Old 05-24-17, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
What you describe is true of Shimano Hollowtech and similar cranks and BBs.
Not true of GXP.
I'm just going to keep posting pictures of the manual until the OP figures out how to install it correctly.

[IMG][/IMG]

Pg 14.
https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign....ackets_eeu.pdf
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Old 05-24-17, 11:01 AM
  #21  
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let me make some clarifications here. first of all, that manual is referring to mountain crank sets, and I am staring at road bike with rival gxp cranks(same design) that have NO spacers on the BB shells, and it is completely solid, save for the frame flex when I shake the crap out of it. The amount of play in the new crank arms is really small, like I don't even think there is 1mm of movement, but it is noticeable, and I don't want to cause premature wear over something I have ignored. The bottom bracket is from back country, which I have no reason to believe that they would have cheap knock offs of the bb, but the list of solutions are getting smaller. *and yes i did use the splined washer
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Old 05-24-17, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
put the spacers on and stop being an idiot.
Originally Posted by bazookafro View Post
that manual is referring to mountain crank sets
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Old 05-26-17, 08:26 AM
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SRAM/Truvative bottom brackets are supplied with 2- 2.5mm spacers, and 1- 1.0mm spacer. To install a road crank (Rival, Force, Red, etc.) you DO NOT use the spacers. Spacers are employed when fitting a MTB crank to 68mm road shell.


If you end up with as you say, 1mm end play, I'd confirm the shell is 68, or has it been faced to a shorter dimension. If so one can use the 1mm spacer/shim as supplied. If it's confirmed the shell has been faced and you don't have the required shim, a cassette shim is the same diameter, and available is several thicknesses. If the shell is full width (68) you might just try a SRAM bb.


For all those having GXP troubles- shortened bearing life etc, you ain't doing it right! The NDS bearing (22mm id) being smaller uses larger balls. That's good cuz we all know there's more stress placed on the NDS crank arm. OD is the same for both sides. Now if you ain't using compatible parts... you're on your own.


Maddog34- SRAM cranks don't use that "nylon spacer" to fit the DS spindle in the bearing. The spindle is 24mm on the drive side, stepped down to 22 on the NDS, to fit the 22mm id bearing.


Corrado33- Spindles are not a "FIXED LENGTH." MTB cranks employ a longer spindle.
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Old 05-26-17, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
This is absolutely incorrect. You guys are misunderstanding how these bottom brackets work. If you do not use the spacers on a 68mm shell, there will be ~5mm of space left over since the BB spindle is a FIXED LENGTH. Because of this, you will have play. The BB spindle is built to accommodate the largest BB commonly in use today, 73mm, therefore the spindle has to be long enough to work with that large of a BB shell. If you use a SMALLER BB shell, like a 68, you MUST use spacers to make the bb shell long enough to work with these bottom brackets.

I've already given you the answer you need. Put the spacers on and stop being an idiot.
I have a great understanding how bottom brackets work. I also know how to read. Did you happen to look at the first page of the manual that you linked to? The one where it says SRAM Mountain Bike Cranksets and Bottom Brackets? Did you also not read that the OP has a Rival crankset which is a road crankset? Do you see where I am going with this? Mountain bike cranksets are not the same as road cranksets. Here is the manual and look on page 16. "Use the provided spacers with wide axle cranksets on 135 mm OLD rear triangle frames. He doesn't have a wide axle crankset, he owns a Rival crankset which is a road crankset.

Plus, calling someone an idiot just isn't nice. It's not what helpful people do on Bike Forums.
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