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why in the world would you buy SRAM?

Old 06-10-17, 08:00 PM
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ypsetihw
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why in the world would you buy SRAM?

so I'm a shimano guy, and I have had lots of fun with microshift and sunrace products mated to my shimano drivetrains.

I have been doing more and more work lately, and some SRAM doubletap stuff has come across my workstand . . .

TERRIBLE

expensive, finicky, not intuitive to adjust, no FD trim (resulting in mega chain rub even 2-3 cogs in), and doubletap has to be the worst designed levers I've ever seen . . . long throw, touchy so you're always missing gears, the ergonomics of the hoods are weird and not human . . . I could go on.

why does anyone like this crap? shimano and shimano compatible sunrace/microsift/etc. parts are cheaper, easier to fit, more intuitive, and except at the extremely high end just as lightweight. what gives?

more important, why can't SRAM get it together, IMO?
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Old 06-10-17, 08:13 PM
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I had a neighbor with an old Jaguar; expensive, finicky, not intuitive to adjust, Lucas electrics(eek!), but he loved it. De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Old 06-10-17, 08:13 PM
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SRAM developed the "Doubletap" shifting system because Shimano and Campy had all of the better configurations locked up with patents and, obviously, were't willing to license their designs. It was a design of necessity, not choice.
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Old 06-10-17, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
De gustibus non est disputandum.
sounds like something my father would say and he couldn't have said it better. fair enough.
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Old 06-10-17, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
SRAM developed the "Doubletap" shifting system because Shimano and Campy had all of the better configurations locked up with patents and, obviously, were't willing to license their designs. It was a design of necessity, not choice.
I'll give this to sram - some fo their logarithmic cassette designs, especially in 10 and 11 spd, are interesting, and provide novel choices of ratio. also their road RDs seem rather robust compared to shimano (although less precise, and on road bikes this is presumably a non-issue). as far as chains go, they're just stupid, KMC and shimano are better and cheaper and IME wear longer, although I do use KMC or SRAM quicklinks on my shimano chains. the DRs are not appreciably lighters, and aren't compatible with shimano stuff, and they are more expensive, sometimes by a significant amount. that's just flat out poor market positioning.

and if you say it's because shimano has all the patents, then why can companies like microshift make totally novel, and interesting, and functional, and cheap parts, that have good ergo and good durability, and are totally shimano compatible, but SRAM can't?
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Old 06-10-17, 08:22 PM
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Hell I haven't needed to "upgrade" in decades, I jumped ship from derailleurs, to IGH..
I leave the trend following to you youngsters..

Latest bike deal ; a Used Bike Friday Tikit with a , yes, SRAM i9 , 9 speed close ratio IGH, grip shifter..






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Old 06-10-17, 08:43 PM
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If you're in the select few who are looking for 1X, SRAM is really the only choice. Apex and Rival are inexpensive, and work fantastically well. The Rival 1 RD is light years ahead of Shimano in handling big cogs. As a longtime Shimano user, I thought DoubleTap was going to be finicky, but as of today I have zero complaints.

And at least in my limited case, the SRAM setup was significantly cheaper than a comparable Shimano group.
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Old 06-10-17, 09:13 PM
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I have limited exposure to SRAM gear, but I don't find it inferior to Shimano. There are pros and cons, many of which are simply a matter of preference.

Trim is accounted for, either via lever functionality or Yaw.

I actually prefer SRAM lever ergonomics to Shimano, although Campagnolo ErgoPower levers are my favorite.

...but whatever floats your boat. Campy, Shimano, and SRAM all make good stuff. Pick what works best for you.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
SRAM developed the "Doubletap" shifting system because Shimano and Campy had all of the better configurations locked up with patents and, obviously, were't willing to license their designs. It was a design of necessity, not choice.
I would think the first gen (8 spd) ergopower patents would have expired by now. Sachs? I'm sure there are new second and third gen brifters are patented, but the original first gen mechanisms could be copied and improved upon.

Actually, SRAM owns Sachs, so they should have access to any Sachs technology including their shifters (unless they were licensed copies).

So far, I've used a couple of Shimano shifters, Microshift, and Campy. I haven't tried SRAM shifters, in part because of the double tap. I do use SRAM ferrules.

If SRAM made a 10/24 cassette, I'd love to try it out.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
If you're in the select few who are looking for 1X, SRAM is really the only choice. Apex and Rival are inexpensive, and work fantastically well. The Rival 1 RD is light years ahead of Shimano in handling big cogs. As a longtime Shimano user, I thought DoubleTap was going to be finicky, but as of today I have zero complaints.

And at least in my limited case, the SRAM setup was significantly cheaper than a comparable Shimano group.
Microshift also sells a blank left brake lever, although I don't think they have as complete of a product line as SRAM.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:12 PM
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Why would anyone want to have to use a brake lever to shift? Dumbest design ever thought of.

Truthfully I have SRAM force on one bike and Di2 on another and I like them both and never a problem adjusting the SRAM equipt bike.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
If you're in the select few who are looking for 1X, SRAM is really the only choice. Apex and Rival are inexpensive, and work fantastically well. The Rival 1 RD is light years ahead of Shimano in handling big cogs. As a longtime Shimano user, I thought DoubleTap was going to be finicky, but as of today I have zero complaints.

And at least in my limited case, the SRAM setup was significantly cheaper than a comparable Shimano group.
^ Same here. I like the double tap and haven't had one problem, the quality is very good - and I also have Ultegra. I have never used a SRAM front derailleur so cannot comment on that.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:21 PM
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SRAM had used a better, longer cable pull for RDs for ages. Shimano "discovered" it with 10+ speed MTBs and newer (as of Tiagra 4700) 10+ speed road systems. Until then, SRAM was better for that at least - less troubled by derailleur housing and cable imperfections. They still are for systems with up to 10 speeds IMO. Though even Shimano 8 speed and below has enough space between adjacent cogs and enough cable movement, in spite of the same RD movement ratio, for that not to pose a problem. 9 speed being borderline, while (old road) 10 speed being the worst system for that reason.

However, Shimano is still the easiest to source parts where I live, so I stick to it for better or worse.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
why in the world would you buy SRAM?
Cuz it's better.
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Old 06-10-17, 10:53 PM
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I try to stay away from dogmas and pick and choose and adapt components to fit my needs. For derailleurs I tend to go with Shimano, as sturdier, but for the main bike I tweak them. For shifters I tend to go with Gripshift because I find them more intuitive and versatile. I can overshift, if I need to, and can constantly toggle between two gears, if I want to. Again, I tweak them to my needs on the main bike, making them skip microshifts I do not use.
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Old 06-10-17, 11:48 PM
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I know some mountain bikers who love SRAM's higher end gripshift for a 1X setup. I have not used them, but I can see how it could be a lot quicker to dump gears in massive terrain changes. I use Shimano rapid rise with triggers for the same reason.

John
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Old 06-11-17, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
and some SRAM doubletap stuff has come across my workstand . . .

TERRIBLE
Ham-fisted, poor mechanical skills?

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
expensive,
Because quality is notably higher.

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
finicky,
Nope.

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
not intuitive to adjust,
False, adjusts the same way as any other equipment.

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
no FD trim
A direct lie?

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
(resulting in mega chain rub even 2-3 cogs in)
Ham-fisted, poor mechanical skills?

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
and doubletap has to be the worst designed levers I've ever seen
Quite the opposite, DoubleTap is a must.

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
touchy so you're always missing gears
Ham-fisted, poor mechanical skills?

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
, the ergonomics of the hoods are weird and not human . . . I could go on.
Troll alert?

Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
more important, why can't SRAM get it together, IMO?
Huh? SRAM rules it all. Shimano is just... well... cheaper and inferior alternative.
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Old 06-11-17, 01:48 AM
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I dunno about SRAM's other stuff, but I am fairly pleased with their chains. Any of the models with chrome-hardened pins just last and last.
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Old 06-11-17, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I dunno about SRAM's other stuff, but I am fairly pleased with their chains. Any of the models with chrome-hardened pins just last and last.
I have to agree about the chains. I can not remember anyone complaining about working on or using SRAM equipment. I have heard a couple of comments regarding the double tap shifting requiring some practice to use intuitively, but not a problem per se.

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Old 06-11-17, 08:01 AM
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My Apex has trim on the FD. IMO, working on both Shimano and SRAM day in and day out, once you get above the super cheap 6, 7, and low end 8 speed stuff, they are pretty interchangeable. SRAM uses a bit more plastic than I like, but I love how solid the brake lever feel is on my Apex bike. You aren't upset at SRAM for the right reasons, though. They just can't compete with Shimano when it comes to hydraulic disc brakes. From the Avid days to today, they just can't get their stuff together and make a decent brake. If it's not porous magnesium, it's the crappy coating they put on the magnesium to keep it from seeping through flaking off because they didn't alter any dimensions to account for the coating. And if the crappy plastic lever internals aren't so loose they blow seals regularly, then they're too tight and seize in their bores when the master cylinder gets hot from being in the sun. And why do they continue to use DOT fluid?! GAH!!
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Old 06-11-17, 08:40 AM
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My Red and Rival 10 spd both have trim on the front derailleur. I prefer the hoods on both over Shimano. Double Tap is far superior to swinging the brake lever on a Shimano brifter to change gears.
The ridiculous cable tension required to make the front derailleur function on current Shimano is absurd. Using a little plastic gauge to determine how to attach the cable to begin with??
The current crop of Shimano Road cranksets are the ugliest design I've seen. There are very few bikes out there where it even begins to look like it belongs.

No thanks for Shimano Road. I will keep my SRAM.
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Old 06-11-17, 08:51 AM
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WTF is going on with that acronym, and HTH do you pronounce it?

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
SRAM is an acronym comprising the names of its founders, Scott, Ray, and Sam, (where Ray is the middle name of company head Stan Day).
(My only genuine objection to them is their hydraulic brakes.)
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Old 06-11-17, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
WTF is going on with that acronym, and HTH do you pronounce it?
Can't help you with the WTF part, but the YouTube video below demonstrates the pronunciation. (The "SR" is pronounced like Sri Lanka. The "AM" is like ample.)

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Old 06-11-17, 10:19 AM
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Also... Wth is the deal with strawberry ice cream? There's chocolate and vanilla and that ought to be good enough for everybody.
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Old 06-11-17, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Also... Wth is the deal with strawberry ice cream? There's chocolate and vanilla and that ought to be good enough for everybody.
Right...
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