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Same model tire but only 1/3 the life

Old 06-26-17, 03:04 AM
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Same model tire but only 1/3 the life

My friend's bike came with Vittoria Randonneur 700x32 tires and the original back tire lasted about 6000 miles before the white layer under the tread became visible. We bought the same tire from a bike shop except without the reflective stripe and this tire lasted only about 2000 miles before a red layer under the tread started showing.

The life of the new Randonneur was abysmal compared to the original - what gives? The tire didn't even last six months. Original tire lasted about 20 months.

The flat protection of the Randonneur has been nice, but the life of the new tire is a real turn off. What's a comparable tire? Schwalbe Marathon?
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Old 06-26-17, 06:20 AM
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I would assume since the new tire didn't have the reflective stripe and when it wore through the color was different it was not exactly the same model tire. Same Brand but not the same model. Roger
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Old 06-26-17, 06:31 AM
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Tires and chains are wear items.

2000 miles would be good for most of us w tires

I buy Tires on sale ahead of time.
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Old 06-26-17, 07:39 AM
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There are several different flavors of the Vittoria Randonneur tire.

The lower end "Randonneur" model has reflective stripe and 30 TPI nylon casing. Vittoria describes them as "extremely durable."

The Randonneur Pro II is much lighter and has 120 TPI casing. This is a higher performance tire and will not last as long.

My guess is that the OP's friend purchased the latter while the bike came with the former.


-Tim-
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Old 06-26-17, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rhenning
I would assume since the new tire didn't have the reflective stripe and when it wore through the color was different it was not exactly the same model tire. Same Brand but not the same model. Roger
Originally Posted by TimothyH
There are several different flavors of the Vittoria Randonneur tire.

The lower end "Randonneur" model has reflective stripe and 30 TPI nylon casing. Vittoria describes them as "extremely durable."

The Randonneur Pro II is much lighter and has 120 TPI casing. This is a higher performance tire and will not last as long.

My guess is that the OP's friend purchased the latter while the bike came with the former.


-Tim-
No. The Randonneur is available with and without reflective stripe. Both tires were Marked Vittoria Randonneur 700 x 32. Neither the new or old was Randonneur Pro because that is a folding tire.
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Old 06-26-17, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
Tires and chains are wear items.

2000 miles would be good for most of us w tires

I buy Tires on sale ahead of time.
You have expectation than me then. For road bike tire, 2000 miles is reasonable, but Randonneur is not. Especially not if the original equipment tires lasted over 6000 miles. But if I am buying two tires of the same model, 1/3 the tread life is unexpected. When the tire lasts only 6 months instead of 18, then that is an unexpected event that I could not have planned for.

When we first replaced tires on that bike, we bought a new Randonneur and moved old front to the back. That old tire worked for another 1500 miles and 6 months before the under layer showed. He then bought another randonneur to replaced the back (old front) tire. This one lasted less than a used tire installed on the back. This is where things are confusing.

You can buy tires ahead of time. I don't know how to take that...you are saying you a have big house to store it?

Last edited by jsdavis; 06-26-17 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 06-26-17, 09:39 AM
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NB there are different rubber compounds.. F 1, the high end race car tires..
came in a super soft, short wear but sticky for faster cornering speeds.., soft, medium, etc.

Harder is upwards in mileage durability, but slower cornering speeds.




.....
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Old 06-26-17, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jsdavis
My friend's bike came with Vittoria Randonneur 700x32 tires and the original back tire lasted about 6000 miles before the white layer under the tread became visible. We bought the same tire from a bike shop except without the reflective stripe and this tire lasted only about 2000 miles before a red layer under the tread started showing.

The life of the new Randonneur was abysmal compared to the original - what gives? The tire didn't even last six months. Original tire lasted about 20 months.

The flat protection of the Randonneur has been nice, but the life of the new tire is a real turn off. What's a comparable tire? Schwalbe Marathon?
That red layer? Is it the cord or a warning that the thread is worn and the tire should be replaced? If it is a warning, you are comparing apples to oranges. The first tire was worn to the chord showing; far past where any manufacturer would place a wear indicator.

Kinda like 2 drivers in old school hot rods. Driver A hits the accelerator and stays in 1st until the engine hits 13000 RPM, going 45 mph. Driver B shifts at 6000 RPM. Is Driver A's car faster in first gear? (Many years ago, my friend pulled over on an Interstate at rush hour to let me drive. A 3 speed Chevy Vega loaded with 10 weeks of camping gear. I looked and saw a bridge abutment blocking the entire breakdown lane not far up the road. OK, the tach redline is just going to get ignored! Shifted out of first at >30, 2nd at 60 after I merged with traffic.)

I'm guessing if that was a wear indicator, the second tire is also a higher end tire and probably has thinner, higher performance tread but I don't know this.

Ben
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Old 06-26-17, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
That red layer? Is it the cord or a warning that the thread is worn and the tire should be replaced? If it is a warning, you are comparing apples to oranges. The first tire was worn to the chord showing; far past where any manufacturer would place a wear indicator.

Kinda like 2 drivers in old school hot rods. Driver A hits the accelerator and stays in 1st until the engine hits 13000 RPM, going 45 mph. Driver B shifts at 6000 RPM. Is Driver A's car faster in first gear? (Many years ago, my friend pulled over on an Interstate at rush hour to let me drive. A 3 speed Chevy Vega loaded with 10 weeks of camping gear. I looked and saw a bridge abutment blocking the entire breakdown lane not far up the road. OK, the tach redline is just going to get ignored! Shifted out of first at >30, 2nd at 60 after I merged with traffic.)

I'm guessing if that was a wear indicator, the second tire is also a higher end tire and probably has thinner, higher performance tread but I don't know this.

Ben
No. Vittoria changed from white to red layer under the tread at some point. I don't know when. The original tire was installed on a 2014 bike sold in 2015. The replacement tire with red layer was purchased at the beginning of 2017. The threads were not yet visible in either tire.

Both tires are the same model except new one did not have reflective band. Before Vittoria updated their website and product line up earlier this year, the Randonneur was available with and without reflective band. There is a lighter folding version of the tire, but that's not what was purchased as suggested above.

Last edited by jsdavis; 06-26-17 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 06-26-17, 02:07 PM
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So many things affect tire wear.

Was he touring on both sets of tires, or just the latter?

Did he gain weight?

Was the road surface the same for both sets of tires?

Does he ride faster now including cornering faster?

Did he run the tires at the same pressure?

Were they on the same bike?

Last but not least: It's likely that in the past few years the rubber compound was changed between the tires. Just because they're named the same doesn't mean they are identical tires. The Randonneur one year may be a super durable, hard compound touring tire whereas the next it could be a slightly less durable but more sticky touring tire with a cheaper (and differently named) tire replacing the niche the original Randonneur filled.
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Old 06-26-17, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jsdavis
No. The Randonneur is available with and without reflective stripe. Both tires were Marked Vittoria Randonneur 700 x 32. Neither the new or old was Randonneur Pro because that is a folding tire.
OK. Thanks for the extra info. I've no doubt that what your friend used are the same brand and model.

Anything "Pro" from vittoria is a folding bead. That is correct.

There is obviously a difference in construction however, given that one had a white layer under the rolling surface and the other had red. Something changed.

I don't know.


-Tim-
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Old 06-26-17, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
So many things affect tire wear.
Also skidding.

In some cases, a single hard skid can wear off a lot of tread.

I had a set of Origin8 Elimin8er tires on my bike. Green on top, Black on the inside. I hit the black layer in a few patches, and decided to keep riding. I put about 2000 miles on the tires after hitting the black, and never did quite wear them through to the cords.

The outer Green layer seemed soft, while the black layer was hard as rocks.

I could estimate the tread thickness by looking at some of the damaged spots in the treads, and it was getting mighty thin, but I thought it might have repelled punctures better the more it wore as it brought the kevlar belt closer to the surface with less rubber to hold onto glass and other debris.

Anyway, you can look at the tire, and go by the tire condition, rather than the stripe.
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Old 06-27-17, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jsdavis
You have expectation than me then. For road bike tire, 2000 miles is reasonable, but Randonneur is not. Especially not if the original equipment tires lasted over 6000 miles. But if I am buying two tires of the same model, 1/3 the tread life is unexpected. When the tire lasts only 6 months instead of 18, then that is an unexpected event that I could not have planned for.

When we first replaced tires on that bike, we bought a new Randonneur and moved old front to the back. That old tire worked for another 1500 miles and 6 months before the under layer showed. He then bought another randonneur to replaced the back (old front) tire. This one lasted less than a used tire installed on the back. This is where things are confusing.

You can buy tires ahead of time. I don't know how to take that...you are saying you a have big house to store it?
I save some $$ by getting tires on Sale.
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Old 06-27-17, 10:25 PM
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Honestly, 2000mi seems unacceptable for something that's not a high performance supple tire. I get more miles than that from a Schwalbe One.
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Old 06-28-17, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
I save some $$ by getting tires on Sale.
That's great that you have the ability to do that. Not everyone can afford that luxury.
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Old 06-28-17, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gsa103
Honestly, 2000mi seems unacceptable for something that's not a high performance supple tire. I get more miles than that from a Schwalbe One.
Yeah - my feeling exactly. I wanted to suggest my Schwalbe Marathon Supreme but those are $70 each - way too much. Got a Schwalbe Marathon and hoping that lasts a good long while.
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