Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Siezed Outer Headset Bearing Race

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Siezed Outer Headset Bearing Race

Old 06-27-17, 01:26 PM
  #1  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
Siezed Outer Headset Bearing Race

05 Specialized Tarmac E5
Upper and lower headset bearing outer races (more accurately called a outer bearing ring) are seized in the head tube. No lip to get a hold of with a drift, find a puller of some sort, grind through in a spot and carefully remove.

I am not familiar with the black band just above/below the bearing races (ring). Is it fixed? Can I push or pull on it?

Any suggestions?

Pic to come later today.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Headset Bearing.jpg (94.3 KB, 68 views)
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp



Last edited by 02Giant; 06-28-17 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Pic Added
02Giant is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 02:52 PM
  #2  
corrado33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 4,094

Bikes: 199? Landshark Roadshark, 198? Mondonico Diamond, 1987 Panasonic DX-5000, 1987 Bianchi Limited, Univega... Chrome..., 1989 Schwinn Woodlands, Motobecane USA Record, Raleigh Tokul 2

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


RT-2

They are not "seized" They're meant to be like that. You have to press them in.

I have never once run into a headset cup that couldn't be removed with one of those tools.

Last edited by corrado33; 06-27-17 at 02:56 PM.
corrado33 is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 07:56 PM
  #3  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
Pic added to the OP.

The headset bearing on this Specialized are integrated. While disassembling, the upper and lower bearing inner race and balls fell out. The outer race of both the upper and lower bearings are seized in the head tube. These are not pressed in, they drop in, at least in the several integrated sets I have installed.

This bike spent several years tied to a trainer being drenched in sweat. It will be a challenge to get it back to ride-able condition, if all goes well.

https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/sear....aspx?id=10560
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp



Last edited by 02Giant; 06-27-17 at 08:01 PM.
02Giant is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 08:04 PM
  #4  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,887

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
I'd try tapping them lightly with a hammer/punch radially from the inside at 90º angles. That should free them if they are drop in as you say.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 08:12 PM
  #5  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
This is a larger sized frame, as such the head tube is tall, it is difficult to get any angle on a lip of a bearing race (ring) if I can even find one. Currently we are soaking it with penetrating oil to hopefully get through the corrosion.

This is a coworkers bike, if it were mine I would take a die grinder to the race to cut through it.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp



Last edited by 02Giant; 06-28-17 at 01:08 PM.
02Giant is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 08:14 PM
  #6  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Details.

Then devil is in the details.

Is there an aluminum liner between the CF head tube and the bearing, or is the bearing sitting firectly on and stuc to the CF?

Is there any overhang, such that one might get a purchase behind the race?

Any other minor detail you might have to offer?
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 08:21 PM
  #7  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
The head tube is aluminum, the top couple inches is carbon fiber (if you check the link to BBB, the black portion of the head tube is the carbon, the red is aluminum). I cant tell from the corrosion if the bearing sat directly in the aluminum tube or if there might be steel inserts.

I cant find enough of a lip to get any kind of drift against. Working against us is the length of the head tube, you can't get much of an angle with the tool to help catch an edge.

There is what appears to be a black ring below the upper bearing and above the lower bearing that has an edge. I don't know if it is bonded to the head tube and isn't intended to move. It can be seen in the pic in the OP it has the series of small holes around it's diameter.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp



Last edited by 02Giant; 06-27-17 at 08:25 PM.
02Giant is offline  
Old 06-27-17, 08:58 PM
  #8  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post

I cant find enough of a lip to get any kind of drift against. Working against us is the length of the head tube, you can't get much of an angle with the tool to help catch an edge.
OK, first of all, since this is suspected steel/aluminum galvanic corrosion, one of the best chemical options is ammonia. Unfortunately ammonia doesn't work id there's oil keeping it from full contact at the interface.

Next, I didn't ask about "enough" lip, nor head tube length and drift angles because I wasn't planning on a long drift from the opposite.

All we need is about 3mm or so of overhang, and a gap at least a few mm behind the race.

Now, here's an approach.

1- find a disc or coin with a diameter roughly equal to, but less than the head tube behind the cup. File or grind flats to change the round disc to a racetrack oval. Now maneuver the disc up behind the race and center it so it's bridging the race. Use a pipe or bar as large as possible which will slip through the head tube, get a BMF hammer and have at it.

If you're good with hammers, you don't need to dolly the frame, inertia is enough, and you can hold it in a baseball glove to protect your hand. Or you can brace the pipe in a vise and use the frame like a slide hammer, being careful that your disc doesn't shift and get punched free.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 01:11 PM
  #9  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
We will start with cleaning all of the penetrating oil from the parts and go to a ammonia bath, see if that takes away the corrosion. Following that I am going to make a couple of small reliefs 90º from each other in the black rings that sit below (the upper) and above (the lower) rings to create an edge.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp


02Giant is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 01:21 PM
  #10  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
We will start with cleaning all of the penetrating oil from the parts and go to a ammonia bath, see if that takes away the corrosion. Following that I am going to make a couple of small reliefs 90º from each other in the black rings that sit below (the upper) and above (the lower) rings to create an edge.
Another option for fabricating a removal tool.

You'll need a large cork or stopper or similar that can nearly fill the ID of the race, and a beat up screwdriver like the one your wife has been using as a chisel.

Heat the tip of the screwdriver and bend the tip to a 90° angle. Keep the angle on the greater side of 90° (ie. obtuse rather than acute). Slide the screwdriver into the tube and engage your hook behind the race. Jam your cork in to keep it there. Hammer from the other side, and move the tool around to find someplace that moves, then continue working your way around walking the race out.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 01:47 PM
  #11  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Another option for fabricating a removal tool.

You'll need a large cork or stopper or similar that can nearly fill the ID of the race, and a beat up screwdriver like the one your wife has been using as a chisel.

Heat the tip of the screwdriver and bend the tip to a 90° angle. Keep the angle on the greater side of 90° (ie. obtuse rather than acute). Slide the screwdriver into the tube and engage your hook behind the race. Jam your cork in to keep it there. Hammer from the other side, and move the tool around to find someplace that moves, then continue working your way around walking the race out.
Thank you for your suggestions.

We are determined to beat this thing. If we succeed, I will get the jobs of repainting the frame and fork, and final assembly.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp


02Giant is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 02:35 PM
  #12  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
Thank you for your suggestions.

We are determined to beat this thing. If we succeed, I will get the jobs of repainting the frame and fork, and final assembly.
Question -- Are you a shop mechanic, or is this the royal we?

Also, one more. If you're friendly with the local muffler shop or general auto repair, their air hammer can make short work of the job. They may even have the required bent driving tool, or you can make one that will work.

Lastly, don't forget the trusty already made hinged toggle bolt. If you can find a sturdy one the right size, you can slip it into place where it'll expand and latch on, then you can hammer it out.

I use toggles with a slide hammer to remove seatposts and have enjoyed good success with the technique.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 02:52 PM
  #13  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,514
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 655 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times in 89 Posts
I'd suggest borrowing or renting a blind bearing extraction kit from your local automotive parts supplier. They come with an assortment of expandable collets with a thin lip to force in behind the bearing race. A slide hammer attaches to the collet and a bit of brute force and ignorance does the rest.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 04:28 PM
  #14  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Question -- Are you a shop mechanic, or is this the royal we?

Also, one more. If you're friendly with the local muffler shop or general auto repair, their air hammer can make short work of the job. They may even have the required bent driving tool, or you can make one that will work.

Lastly, don't forget the trusty already made hinged toggle bolt. If you can find a sturdy one the right size, you can slip it into place where it'll expand and latch on, then you can hammer it out.

I use toggles with a slide hammer to remove seatposts and have enjoyed good success with the technique.
No shop mechanic, co-worker and myself.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp


02Giant is offline  
Old 06-29-17, 10:50 AM
  #15  
reptilezs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: boston, ma
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
what you have is a specialized mindset. the black ring inside with the holes is part of the race. just pound it all out and insert new cartridge style headset(new crown race and upper wedge etc.). i forgot if the frame uses 45/45 campy style or 45/36 cane creek style headset. measure frame id when apart
reptilezs is offline  
Old 06-29-17, 04:05 PM
  #16  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
Thread Starter
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,940

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 159 Posts
Originally Posted by reptilezs View Post
what you have is a specialized mindset. the black ring inside with the holes is part of the race. just pound it all out and insert new cartridge style headset(new crown race and upper wedge etc.). i forgot if the frame uses 45/45 campy style or 45/36 cane creek style headset. measure frame id when apart
Thank you for dropping in and sharing your knowledge. I now feel better moving forward, likely saved me some grief.
__________________
Elect a clown, you get a circus

I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp


02Giant is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ChinookTx
Bicycle Mechanics
6
04-03-19 02:07 PM
orcas island
Classic & Vintage
18
10-06-13 09:45 AM
nubike
Bicycle Mechanics
7
05-11-10 11:34 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.