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Latex tube problems - cannot solve!

Old 07-19-17, 01:06 PM
  #26  
redlude97
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another +1 for vittoria tubes. Been using them on my road and cross bikes with no issues and the reinforced valve area seems to work well
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Old 07-19-17, 04:13 PM
  #27  
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I run latex tubes also and had the same problem a few years ago. I virtually guarantee this will fix your frustrating blowouts:

Take whatever rim straps you have on the wheels off. Get some Velox rim tape and use that instead. Make sure you measure your current rim strap width and get the proper width Velox rim tape. If you have a leather punch, use that to make the hole for the valve stem. If you don't have one, use an awl or other sharp pointed tool.

The issue I think you will find with latex tubes is the blowouts occur at the spoke recesses. Latex tubes are bad about finding the smallest hole to blow out through. Even a slight depression at a spoke recess can be a problem when you inflate to a high pressure. The Velox tape is the best there is in my opinion to prevent blowouts at the spoke recesses. Hence my recommendation to use a leather punch to make a clean round hole just barely big enough to get the valve stem through.

I have not had any unexpected blowouts ever since I switched to Velox rim tape.

Last edited by drlogik; 07-19-17 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 08-08-17, 11:13 AM
  #28  
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A few weeks into using Vittoria latex tubes on two of my road bikes and no issues. Despite the weight and ride quality of the Vredesteins, they've been too much of a hassle for me.
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Old 08-08-17, 12:19 PM
  #29  
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Just Sayin, maybe you should stay humble and use butyl rubber tubes?

(or glue on tubulars)
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Old 08-09-17, 12:13 PM
  #30  
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I prefer the ride quality and feel of high-end tires with latex tubes, despite my hassles of late. The Vittorias still offer this and I haven't had any puncture issues so far. And, I only use them on three of my high-end road bikes. Butyl or tubeless on my other bikes.

As for tubulars, my main riding pal is around twenty years older and has been cycling for many, many years. He was on tubulars when they were the only option. He has about 15 of the nicest bikes I've ever seen (C-50, C-60, Moots, more than one Vanilla, and more) and says that modern open clinchers have gotten so nice that tubulars are simply not worth it. I respect his opinion. Guy knows bikes and knows quality.
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Old 08-09-17, 12:43 PM
  #31  
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Consider... the difference is : Latex tubes, in Tubular tires the manufacturer knows how far the tube will stretch
before it stops , filling the tire casing volume ..

a tube in a wire bead tire, sold separately , the volume being filled by the tube, is an unforeseen unknown.
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Old 08-22-17, 07:16 AM
  #32  
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Good point! Just to clarify though, my tires are all folding (non-wire bead). Still no issues with the Vittoria latex tubes after a few weeks and numerous rides.
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Old 03-14-18, 10:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
I run latex tubes also and had the same problem a few years ago. I virtually guarantee this will fix your frustrating blowouts:

Take whatever rim straps you have on the wheels off. Get some Velox rim tape and use that instead. Make sure you measure your current rim strap width and get the proper width Velox rim tape. If you have a leather punch, use that to make the hole for the valve stem. If you don't have one, use an awl or other sharp pointed tool.

The issue I think you will find with latex tubes is the blowouts occur at the spoke recesses. Latex tubes are bad about finding the smallest hole to blow out through. Even a slight depression at a spoke recess can be a problem when you inflate to a high pressure. The Velox tape is the best there is in my opinion to prevent blowouts at the spoke recesses. Hence my recommendation to use a leather punch to make a clean round hole just barely big enough to get the valve stem through.

I have not had any unexpected blowouts ever since I switched to Velox rim tape.
Whelp, so much for no issues...inflated the tires/tubes on my Casati the other week. Got ready to ride, her the pop/psst. Front Vittoria tube puncture. Right at the tube junction, a few cm's over from the valve. This is where all the Vredestein tubes failed as well.

Seems to be too far over from the valve hole to be pushing in there and getting punctured. Top mechanic at LBS didn't have any ideas. Another one suggested switching AWAY from Velox and over to two wraps of Stans tape.

Hmm, you seem to think the Velox is the best. Maybe the hole is too big?
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Old 03-14-18, 11:04 AM
  #34  
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done the edges of the rim hole , chamfering off sharp corners?
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Old 03-14-18, 12:55 PM
  #35  
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You’re getting pinch flats from the seam in the tube. I bet the tears/holes are on the side of the seam with the butt end of the tube exposed to the exterior. Unfortunately I don’t have good way to avoid it other than just barely inflating the tube prior to installing, generous application of tire talc so the tube slides around inside the tire casing, and completely deflating and partially inflating (15-20 psi) the tire several times and roll the tire around to allow the tube to “walk” into position. Even when I’ve done these things I’ve still experienced pinch flats at the joint.

As best as I can tell any twisting or folding of latex tubes tends to concentrate at the seam since it is less flexible than the rest of the tube. If the tube is inflated beyond its normal size the tube stretches, and that excess “telescopes” around the seam. Once you inflate the tube to full pressure the twists or telescopes flatten out and cut the tube. Lennard Zinn has written about this: Technical FAQ: The lifespan of latex inner tubes | VeloNews.com

The only way I know to avoid the problem completely is to use seamless latex tubes, and even then twists are still an issue But I haven’t seen any seamless latex tubes since the demise of Air-B eons ago. I quit using latex tubes for this very reason, even though I do prefer the ride with a latex tube.
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Old 03-17-18, 10:24 AM
  #36  
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nice post

Originally Posted by nayr497 View Post
I prefer the ride quality and feel of high-end tires with latex tubes, despite my hassles of late. The Vittorias still offer this and I haven't had any puncture issues so far. And, I only use them on three of my high-end road bikes. Butyl or tubeless on my other bikes.

As for tubulars, my main riding pal is around twenty years older and has been cycling for many, many years. He was on tubulars when they were the only option. He has about 15 of the nicest bikes I've ever seen (C-50, C-60, Moots, more than one Vanilla, and more) and says that modern open clinchers have gotten so nice that tubulars are simply not worth it. I respect his opinion. Guy knows bikes and knows quality.

a lot of good info and problems solved. i agree with the above, my experience is the same (have only two average bikes, nothing like your pal). so far, using vittoria hp rim tape with their latex tubes, 18,000km no flat anywhere. just fact. cheers
p.s. still tempted to go with tubulars one day...
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Old 04-04-18, 11:39 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by RGMN View Post
You’re getting pinch flats from the seam in the tube. I bet the tears/holes are on the side of the seam with the butt end of the tube exposed to the exterior. Unfortunately I don’t have good way to avoid it other than just barely inflating the tube prior to installing, generous application of tire talc so the tube slides around inside the tire casing, and completely deflating and partially inflating (15-20 psi) the tire several times and roll the tire around to allow the tube to “walk” into position. Even when I’ve done these things I’ve still experienced pinch flats at the joint.

As best as I can tell any twisting or folding of latex tubes tends to concentrate at the seam since it is less flexible than the rest of the tube. If the tube is inflated beyond its normal size the tube stretches, and that excess “telescopes” around the seam. Once you inflate the tube to full pressure the twists or telescopes flatten out and cut the tube. Lennard Zinn has written about this: Technical FAQ: The lifespan of latex inner tubes | VeloNews.com

The only way I know to avoid the problem completely is to use seamless latex tubes, and even then twists are still an issue But I haven’t seen any seamless latex tubes since the demise of Air-B eons ago. I quit using latex tubes for this very reason, even though I do prefer the ride with a latex tube.
Well, this is informative...and depressing, in that you gave up on latex tube. I patched mine and have one ride so far. I will be even more careful when installing. Thanks!

And yes, I have tried to make sure the rim opening is smooth, but I'll work on that some more as well.
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Old 04-04-18, 11:50 PM
  #38  
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I'm curious... Do the Vredestein not take a stem nut to tighten against the rim like the Vittorias?

I wanted to try latex tubes and went with the Vittorias. So far, I've just loved them. Light and much less jarring, and closer in feel to when I used to ride tubulars. I ride 28mm tires (actually measure about 30), and don't ride them at high pressure. 80psi is more than sufficient, so I may not stress mine as much as you do with pressure.

One concern I had was I can't nut the stem against the rim. If I haven't inflated for about 3 or so days, when I attach my pump, the stem gets pushed pretty deeply into the tire without a nut to hold it still. I'm concerned if that is causing too much repeated stress on a vulnerable area. I was also wondering if this may be a factor with the Vredestein having a seam so close to the stem?

Last edited by valueaudio; 04-04-18 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 10-15-21, 08:17 AM
  #39  
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I have the problem with valves, first, the edge, where the valve meets the rubber gets agitated, then develops a hole. Could it be old rims? Have brand new tape on rims. I’m thinking it must be the connection between the valve hole and valve? It’s not working.
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Old 10-15-21, 08:38 AM
  #40  
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If the flat starts with an 'explosion', including 'boom' or 'bang' or 'POW' noise, that is 100% the result of the tube somehow escaping from inside the tire. It was either a tube pinched between tire and rim, or from a cut or hole in the tire. If the puncture happens completely inside the tire, there is no explosion sound.

A hole in the tire can be caused by debris or a sharp object, but also by pinching the tire between the rim and the ground. It is actually surprisingly easy to cut the sidewall of the tire by riding with too low of pressure in the tire. Lighter tires are generally easier to damage this way, and I suspect latex tubes require a smaller hole to escape and burst than butyl tubes.
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Old 10-15-21, 09:36 AM
  #41  
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Thanks for the observation, but that’s not the problem for me.
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Old 10-15-21, 10:23 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Bamicus View Post
I have the problem with valves, first, the edge, where the valve meets the rubber gets agitated, then develops a hole. Could it be old rims? Have brand new tape on rims. I’m thinking it must be the connection between the valve hole and valve? It’s not working.
I use these:

I use these locking nylon stops with my Vitoria tubes. It prevents the smooth valve from pushing down when the latex tube naturally loses air. It makes reinflation much more reliable & stress free.
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Old 10-15-21, 12:05 PM
  #43  
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Where’d you get those? That may be a solution.
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Old 10-15-21, 05:28 PM
  #44  
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My gut reaction is three things:

1) The Vredestein tubes have a manufacturing defect.
or
2) The valve is moving enough during rotation that it is stressing the tube and sooner or later it blows.
3) Both 1 and 2

FWIW when I run latex tubes in my Challenge Strada Bianca tires I install that little nut onto the stem to secure the valve stem. I've never had a problem unless I don't mount the tire/tube properly for latex.

Yeah, ok so it's not "cool" to run valve caps or the lock nut. That's a bunch of hooey.
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Old 10-16-21, 06:00 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Bamicus View Post
Where’d you get those? That may be a solution.

Ok - they are from an industrial supply. They are a bit pricey at ~$6.50 each. Google: Ruland Clamp Style Collar, 6mm MCL-6-P. I got them for a bit lower from England but had to pay shipping. In the USA Zoro has them.
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Old 10-16-21, 06:05 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
My gut reaction is three things:

1) The Vredestein tubes have a manufacturing defect.
or
2) The valve is moving enough during rotation that it is stressing the tube and sooner or later it blows.
3) Both 1 and 2

FWIW when I run latex tubes in my Challenge Strada Bianca tires I install that little nut onto the stem to secure the valve stem. I've never had a problem unless I don't mount the tire/tube properly for latex.

Yeah, ok so it's not "cool" to run valve caps or the lock nut. That's a bunch of hooey.
What brand of latex tube are you using that uses a lock nut? All the ones I’ve seen have the smooth stem.

In a similar vein I would just also note: for all the road comfort goodness you can achieve with latex tubed road clinchers, the same level of goodness can be exceeded even more by a proper road tubeless set up. My first foray into it (once I got them to consistently hold air) has helped me ride rough pavement with much less road buzz.
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