CliffordK

I'm working on setting up the first 700c bike for my nephew.

He lives in goathead country.

He's been riding a Fuji Ace 24 & Ace 650, both of which limit the tire choice somewhat. With the 700c bike, a lot of options are available. He should be light enough that a 25mm tire would be fine. But, perhaps also a 28mm would be appropriate as he does have issues with tire pressure, running over stuff, and pinch flats. The bike should have adequate clearance for at least 28mm tires if not 32.

So, options:

• Schwalbe Marathon Plus 25mm. Tough tires, but I'm not convinced their puncture protection is any more than giving a thick layer of tread, hoping that thorns won't puncture all the way through.
• Continental Gator Hardshell. I've used these for a bit, so far with good luck with them, although the sidewalls are perhaps a little vulnerable.
• Maxxis Re-Fuse. I haven't tried these, but some people like them.

• Clement Strada USH Tubeless. This would be a big tire, and would also be the most expensive option, probably requiring building a custom wheelset, although I have some RS-10 wheels that weren't that expensive, and could be converted. I have limited ability to give long distance support, so while the sealant might be the easiest to deal with thorns, they aren't care-free.

• Tannus tires. I use these on my winter commuter. I have a feeling that they are slower than other tires, but the flat-free are nice. It has the advantage of doing it once, then not ever worrying about it, but perhaps it is OK for the kid to deal with things like the occasional flat and tire inflation. I'd have given him a set of the Tannus tires if they were available in 650c or 24" road.

79pmooney

2010 I rode the goathead territory Cycle Oregon on Vittoria Rubino Pros, back when they had hard, very slippery rubber. (Treacherous in the wet.) I got zero flats. Passed many.

Tires that don't encourage the goatheads to stick go a long ways in preventing flats. (I suspect it was goatheads that promted someone to donate to CO a street sweeper. Bliss. But you gotta remember to brush your tires at all stops after you get back to the road. Lots of flats in the first mile after rest stops.

Ben

CliffordK

Thanks for the comments. "Treacherous when wet" isn't necessarily what I want to give my nephew, although he is living in the Washington Desert. I suppose the Gator Hardshells, as well as the Tannus tires do lack some traction when wet.

I have thought the Schwalbe Marathon tires have a little extra traction, so perhaps that would lean one towards those. They are a bit of a pain to remove and install, but not impossible.
Hmmm, I only do the hand-rub after hitting glass. I've never been convinced it was good or bad, but it is an old habit now.

That does bring up the idea of the old tire wipers, which apparently Compass is making/selling. I never was convinced they did anything either, but the goatheads may be unique, that perhaps one could flick them out before they stick.


https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...s/tire-wipers/

Or, perhaps one could make one if one could find some good tubing and wire.

catgita

The tire wipers do make a significant difference with goat heads. Maybe 1/4 in my experience. But with higher pressure tires (80+) I got 3 or so flats a month. Sealant like Stans, Slime Pro, etc in tubes will take care of it completely, so long as you top up every 3 months like clockwork.

These days I use 38mm and 42mm compass tires, which are very thin and have no special puncture protection, at 60psi or less, but almost never get flats. I see tons of goats heads, and lawn services blow them all over the streets, but they no longer puncture.

canklecat

Michelin Protek Urban, if it'll handle 700x28. Keep in mind some Michelins run a bit over nominal spec so ask owners for feedback.

I've used Protek Cross Max on my errand and bombing around bike for almost two years and they're bombproof. I've picked out broken glass, small nails, all kinds of stuff, nothing has caused a puncture flat. Even when sharp stuff slashed through the thick tread nothing penetrated the yellow Aramid fiber shield.

The Urban isn't quite that rugged -- 1mm Aramid shield rather than 5mm, thinner tread. But I'd try a set of the Urbans if I had a bike suitable for 'em. My road bike is old school and 700x25 is pushing the limits. And I'm already happy with Continental Speed Rides on my mountain bike.

The Michelin Pro4 Grip or other Pro4 model would be the next closest, although not as rugged.

CliffordK

Thanks for the comments. The Cross Max looks somewhat like the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires with a thick middle layer to absorb debris. Although I'm not sure how tough that layer is on the Schwalbe tires.

But, if one had a tire that was thicker than the thorns, it would help some.

Those tires are massively HEAVY

I was thinking about sending a Cross bike up there. My brother was talking about some gravel riding. But, things are in a bit of turmoil up there at the moment. But the Cross Max looks like it would make a great urban/gravel tire for a harsh environment.

I'll have to look at clearance on the bike I was going to send up for my nephew. I was thinking of mainly road, but it does have fairly good clearance as I think it may have originally had 27" wheels mounted.

cyccommute 

Well there's the rub, isn'it? I know of no tire that discourages goatheads to stick in them. Goatheads will stick in every tire I've ever used with wild abandon. Sometimes it seems like they come from miles around just to stick in the tire...I stopped counting at 63 for the worst incident I ever experienced

There are any number of belted tires that do a pretty good job. Vittoria makes other tires that work well and perform well in the wet. On the other hand, goatheads don't thrive where it's too wet so poor wet performance usually isn't an issue.

There are good and bad things to brushing goatheads off. If you are lucky enough not to get full penetration, this can work. On the other hand, you never know how deeply the goathead has penetrated and you may just open up the hole.

Some people have had really good luck with Slime or tubeless tires. The sealant in both is what seals the hole. I'm not a fan as I don't like the extra weight.

One note on tires that use sealant, removal of the goathead is better than leaving it in place. If the goathead is left in place the tire flexes around it and the hole never really seals. If removed the sealant will seal the hole better.

hankaye

Howdy All;

I ride down in the Southwest desert of New Mexico, no shortage
of Goatheads here. I bought some of these
https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_t...thon_plus_tour
and some of Schwalbe's heavy duty tubes to go in them. So far so good.

hank

europa

I like the Maxxis ReFuse and in six years on two bikes, have yet to have a flat you can blame on the tyre not keeping some crap out. However, nothing will defeat our Three Corner Jacks, which I believe are similar to your Goatheads.

Years ago, I had a commute that included a short distance that was littered with the rotten things. In those days (pre-internet), tyre wipers weren't available, but my Dad put me onto a similar thing that he used to use... in the fourties. After politely listening to him, as young men do, I got some lightweight electrical wire (with the plastic coating) and tied it to my front and rear forks so it dragged lightly over the top of the tyres. Instant cure, as in I got no more punctures.

While the commercial product looks good, the comments about them being less than perfect make me wonder if the more flexible electrical wire is a better option. It's certainly cheaper... if you have some wire in the shed.

DiabloScott

Exactly. There's nothing you can do or buy to make goatheads not stick in your tires. So you are left with two options:

1. Maximize the distance required for penetration - thick tread, Mr. Tuffy, thick tube.
2. Slime

You can do both of course.

Darth Lefty 

Tubeless was invented for goatheads IMO. When I was a kid in Phoenix we variously used Mr. Tuffy tire liners, or the tubes that come in shoebox-sized boxes. Both worked on the thorns but I always had problems when the tire got low that the tube would slide around and tear off the valve stem. You could also go with Marathons or even Supremes (thick soft armor) or Gator Hardshells (thin hard armor) or other-brand equivalents

tyrion

Schwalbe Mondials (the folding version) are super tough.

LesterOfPuppets

I just go with Mr. Tuffy.

I do stop to remove the goatheads. Usually you can hear 'em and see 'em, especially on the front tire.

cyccommute 

I think goatheads (Tribulus terrestris) have longer spines than Three Corner Jacks (Emex australis). They are similar but the three corner jacks are "nicer".

At least the sealant was invented for goatheads as was Slime. But neither one is foolproof. Even liners aren't foolproof nor are tires with built in liners. I've been on rides where the tubeless guy flatted both tires due to 6 punctures, a regular tire rider got 20 flats, my wife got one flat in the unlined tire (I forgot to put the liner back) and I got none on my lined tire. Of course I mocked the others for their bad luck.

But the Goathead Gods are fickle and capricious! If you mock them, they will make you pay. The next time I rode in that area with my invincible tire liners, I carried the bike out of the canyon and stopped counting at 63.

The next time I went down there, I bought a set of old tires (to throw away after the ride), used Slime tubes and liners. I never even picked up a goathead much less got punctured. They are capricious indeed!

canklecat

Yup, similar chevron tread pattern which works well on everything I encounter (except soggy black gumbo, but I shouldn't have tackled that particular patch). Great on wet and dry pavement, gravel, dry grass, light snow.

These Michelins squash ordinary grass burrs -- they don't even penetrate to stick. The bigger goatheads and similar stuff penetrate just enough to stick, but don't get through the entire tread or puncture shield.

Yup, the 700x40 Protek Cross Max weigh 1,100 g. The nominal size is too conservative -- they're closer to 700x45. But they roll remarkably smoothly even at low pressure. I never feel like I'm fighting the tires. Best heavy duty all terrain tires I've tried, and I have at least three sets in the closet from Specialized, Innova, etc. I regard them as fatbike-lite tires.

The Protek Urban, Protek Max and regular Cross tires weigh quite a bit less, especially in sizes smaller than 700x35. Those are probably all good enough for most terrain that's less brutal than where I ride my errand bike.

The errand bike, a 2008 Globe Carmel, was what I bought to get myself back into shape in 2015. It's heavy, probably 35 lbs, a long wheelbase comfort hybrid with Suntour spring suspension fork. The rural routes I often ride are littered with construction debris, broken glass from the many roadhouses and strip clubs, etc. Just navigating to the nearest grocery store or pharmacy runs a gauntlet of broken glass in the parking lots shared by h0nkyt0nks. I had flats on the Specialized and Innova tires with thinner puncture shields. Never a problem with the Michelins.

I know some folks recommend liners but Michelin eliminates the need for that. And I'd bet they roll better than wheels with added liners that aren't incorporated into the tires -- there's bound to be some energy loss from non-integral rubber squishing around.

canklecat

Probably identical to our Texas goat heads. The emex australis is an invasive species common in Texas too.

I've plucked a few out of the Michelin Protek Cross Max. No punctures. But those tires have very thick tread in addition to the 5mm Aramid shield. They're heavy (1,100g for the 700x40 I ride). But worth it for a no-hassles ride.

I've added Slime to the tubes as well, although I've never had a puncture flat with the Michelins. Just a little extra precaution since I don't carry a pump or patch kit on that bike for local errands.

canklecat

We have both and they're similar in size. The emex australis has fewer but more rigid thorns that will puncture most bicycle tires unless the tread and puncture shield are physically thicker than the length of the thorn.

The tribulus here tend to have more thorns per nut, thinner and more easily bent or broken by heavy duty tires.

There's at least one more species we see commonly but I can't recall the name. It's covered with lots of thin thorns, a painful nuisance to bare feet but not enough to puncture any but the thinner racing tires.

We also have locust thorns but those are more likely to grab a leg or arm in passing on a tight trail. On the ground we'd have to run over them at just the right/wrong angle to get a puncture. They're very long and could easily puncture any bicycle tire.

And lots of wild roses and cacti with stickers, although I haven't been flatted by any of those... yet.

There's another species of enormous burrs up to the size of golf balls, including the outer diameter of the thorns themselves. I haven't seen one in this part of Texas in years. Last time I got stuck with 'em was in Savannah, walking through the brush near the beach at night. None in my feet, fortunately, but they were stuck in my legs and clothing.

TallRider

I started using sealant (Stans, in my case) inside innertube.
I went from having 3 road-biking flats in 15k miles while in North Carolina, to three flats in my first five rides when I moved to Fresno. I haven't had a single flat since, except a huge pinch flat when I rolled over a rock while admiring the beauty on Tioga Road a couple weeks ago. Sealent will plug thorn/wire/small-glass sized holes, but not big dual slits.

worry

i bookmarked that page for the next time i need tires.

thanks

79pmooney

I'm talking brushing the tires BEFORE you get on the bike. They do brush off easily with just the bike weight. (This for Cycle Oregon and its swept roads so once you are riding with clean tires , you are good.)

Ben

europa

The thing about the wires or whatever that brush the goat heads off before they puncture the tube, is that they flick off the thorn in the first half of the revolution. Think about it. The tyre grabs the thorn. Half a revolution later, the wire, flicks it out of the tyre. The thorn never gets a chance to establish itself in the tyre and that is the important point. With a 'thorn resistant' set up, the tyre picks up the thorn, but that thorn stays in the tyre until it hits the ground again and gets pushed further into the tyre.

Puncture resistant tyres are good. However, if you're riding over ground that guarantees you will pick up something that can be flicked out by a wire dragging over the tyre (or something similar), you are a lot better off removing it before it can be pushed further into the tyre.

The tyres I prefer are very puncture resistant however, I have also spent a lot of time digging bits of glass out of them. I'm lucky not to ride in thorn territory these days and so I don't bother with the dragging wire. Were I in thorn territory, I'd be refitting the wires.

cyccommute 

I wonder if you are talking about "sand burrs". They hurt like the Devil when they stick to you...I haven't gone barefoot since, well, ever. They are a grass and I doubt that you could puncture even a racing tire with them. Still nasty.

I've flatted a few times on prickly pear spines on mountain bike tires. They are the worst kind of flat to find as well. Very slow leakers.

Cuckleburrs? We call them porcupine eggs

cyccommute 

The problem I've found with that method is that you don't know where you picked up the goathead or how deeply embedded it is. Often the "brushing off" is followed by a whoosh of air.

Sweeping roads is someone ineffective. People getting off the roads, pick goatheads, brush them off on the road and leave the thorns behind for the next schmuck who comes along. The goathead is kind of ingenious that way.

deegentim

Here in Colorado, we have lots of goatheads and I ride Vittoria Randonneurs with double shield protection. No flats in three years. I just jinxed myself didn't I?

cyccommute 

Yup. You may need to perform a sacrifice. You may have to burn your Randonneurs on the Altar of Spininess. Hopefully that will be enough to appease the Goathead Gods but they may ask for the whole bike.

Never boast of your lack of flats!