hokiefyd 

I get what he's saying. Sure, you place something in an ideal environment and then proclaim: look, it doesn't fail! To me, this is the same as placing some naked steel in a de-humidified room and then telling people that steel doesn't need paint to prevent rust -- it just needs to be put in the correct environment.

Right.

To his point about chains and wear prevention. Oil generally needs pressurization to maintain separation between the two metal surfaces (though not always). We don't have that in a bicycle chain. This can be somewhat mitigated in an oil bath situation because you're literally re-bathing the part in lubricant with every revolution, and you have a continual supply of oil. We don't have this in a bike chain, either (in 99.9% of cases). The chain has to live on whatever lubricant is supplied and at whatever interval that's done. You start cranking on a chain and you WILL get metal-to-metal contact. You can attempt to prevent it all you want, but the oil's boundary layer cannot be sustained. That's generally the case in this situation, regardless of viscosity. I suppose one could imagine some super-viscous oil that could somehow be applied to inside the rollers and kept there. But that's not what Mr. Bornman is suggesting. He's suggesting pouring a mix of bar oil and Havoline on your chain.

I'm sure it'll work. It'll work as well as a wax lube. It'll work as well as a dry lube. It'll work about as well as any other lube. As long as you're lubricating the chain at intervals rather than continually in a bath, you will get break-downs in the lubricant and you will experience wear.

Joe Minton

Oil does not need pressure to separate moving parts; it creates its own. How oil works is not a mystery -- do some research ----.

Here are a couple of links (there are many, many more).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9910021217.pdf

Joe

FBinNY 

Fixed it for clarity (assuming it was a typo originally).

Joe Minton

FBinNY:

I fixed it too! Dunno which of us did it first. Anyway -- thanks LOL ;o)

Joe

hokiefyd 

In a bike chain application, separation can occur with the hydrodynamic wedge created by the relative movement of the two parts. There is also a boundary layer that works to keep parts separated at slow speeds, where a hydrodynamic wedge isn't relevant. Neither is creating an ideal separation in this case. Sufficient separation between precision parts would likely result in much longer chain life. We don't have either one in this application (sufficient separation OR precision parts). There's only so much a drop of oil on each link of a $15 chain can do.

You'll note that I said that oil "generally needs pressurization to maintain separation between the two metal surfaces (though not always)". I didn't intend for that statement to be taken out of context and used as a general thesis on lubrication theory. Rather, the challenges of a lack of pressurization and wet bath are very relevant to low-speed high-shear applications like a bicycle chain.

My post is intended to be in agreement with most others in this thread, which is both: Mr. Bornman is applying ideal theory to a relatively severe application (with respect to the type and amount of lubrication we can apply to the chain) and, also, it doesn't much matter what type of lubricant is used in a chain. Chain life is somewhat predictable and consistent, due to the lubrication challenges noted above.

hokiefyd 

Note that fluid bearings aren't really relevant to bicycle chains. The article correctly speaks of lubrication wedges developed due to pressure from either the moving parts themselves (in a hydrodynamic situation) or from a pressurized delivery system such as a pump (in a hydrostatic situation). This is generally a high-speed scenario, of which a bike chain is not. Fluid bearings also have an incredibly long life due to a TRUE fluid separation between the moving parts. Again, not terribly relevant to a bike chain.

Although I will admit to not having read every one of the 676 pages of the NASA document, it's going to talk about the same types of stuff as above. Hydrodynamic wedges developed by the rapid movement of two parts, hydrostatic wedges developed by external pressurization, and boundary layers (also called thin film lubrication).

You're absolutely right: this not voodoo science. Lubrication theory is pretty established. Which is why there are no "miracle" cures for bike chains like most of us have (save for special situations like wet bath systems). Bike chains are harsh environments imposed on, let's face it, inexpensive mass-produced components. It's not an ideal environment, no lubricant performs especially well here, and chains are thusly considered a consumable.

This is, clearly, in contrast with chains in an application like an automotive engine cam drive or oil pump drive. These are wet bath situations with components engineered and manufactured to much better standards. They are, in exchange, usually "lifetime" components.

Joe Minton

Bottom line:

If there is oil between two metal parts, they will not touch and they will not wear. It gets complicated after that. ;o)

Joe

TimothyH

@cyccommute, I'd like to try this.

Are you using Clean Ride or one of the other Epic, Wet or Easy products?


-Tim-

cyccommute 

Just the Clean Ride. I've tried the Epic in the past...I may still have part of a bottle but didn't find it to perform any differently than just normal Clean Ride.

Be aware that your chain will have a different sound...louder... than when you use an oil based lubricant. I've gotten used to it (and my hearing has changed over the years) but that is often the complaint that many people make. But even with the different sound, I've not seen any change in durability of the chain.

I would also suggest that you strip as much of other lubricants off first before applying. This will give the cleanest results.

Finally, I've not found that the instructions on the bottle of applying it every 100 miles to be necessary. I apply it about every 500 to 700 miles and, again, haven't noticed any lack of chain durability.