yannisg

I had installed new Michelin pro 4 Endurance tires (25-622) on Feb 2016. The date of manufacture was 23w/2013.
They have about 6000klm on them. The tire was not stored in the sun or hot temperatures, and in spec pressures were used.
This bike had not been used for about 6 weeks, and upon using it today I felt a slight bump coming from the rear wheel. Examining the tire which had circumferential splits as if the tire itself was separating, and portion of the tread had wrinkles. Further along the ride a had a severe blowout. Luckily, I had a piece of juice carton and was able to cover the hole and return home with reduced pressure. Other than what's described above the tire doesn't show excessive wear.
To me this was a tire failure. I wouldn't think that tires would deteriorate while stored under normal conditions.
Usually, tires that I buy online to have stock show that they have been manufactured 2 years ago.
Any views on this situation.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/yannisg/848t2k

TimothyH

The shoulder of that tire is severely cracked, dry rot or some other damage. The "Wrinkles" are cracks in the rubber and this is why the tire split.

You will never know the cause of the cracks and the retailer is likely not going to let you return tires with 6000 km on them. That aside, a tire with cracks like that should not have been ridden in the first place.

It only takes a few moments to slowly spin the wheel, visually inspect the tire, run your hand over the tread to feel for irregularities, pump to proper pressure, etc. I do this before every ride.


-Tim-

yannisg

Thanks for the reply.
Usually I'm deligent in checking the tires. This was just a 30k leisure ride so the check was overlooked.
I've had tires with many more klm and time, but have never encountered such cracks.
I've also experienced an oozing substance on Michelin Krylion tires, and I see the same thing on these.
I've 2 new same tires that I'm trying to return to online vendor due to lost trust in Michelin.

canklecat

Any unusual environmental conditions or practices that might have caused premature aging type failure?

• Unusually high or prolonged atmospheric ozone warning days in your area?
• Equipment in your garage that produces ozone?
• Do you use any cleaners or solvents that might accelerate aging of the tires?
• Roads with chemicals that might accelerate aging?
• Prolonged exposure to sunlight while the bike is not in use? For example, my errand bike is parked next to a west facing window that gets a swath of afternoon sun, so I check the tires often. Coincidentally they're Michelins, but heavy duty hybrid tires. So far, so good, no premature aging or wear after two years, and presumably the tires were new unsold old stock because I bought them heavily discounted from Nashbar.

davidallenxyz

Yes, you got 6,000km out of a tyre and now you need a new one.

yannisg

Front tire has 6000 klm also but shows no such deterioration. This is not wear, but material breakdown.

Trakhak

Be that as it may, 6,000 km is pushing it for any rear tire. You got your money's worth out of it.

gsa103

Very odd. I'm assuming the front is the same age, and presumably stored in the same conditions, since they're on the same bike.

That tire is dry rotted. This is honestly why I buy fast wearing tires. My seem to rotor after 3-4years, so I might as well wear them out annually.

FBinNY 

I can't see the photo because I'm not a registered Flckr user. Maybe you can link and post it directly.

Anyway there are two issues in play.

The crack formation running the length of the shoulders, and the blowout. These are separate and distinct in both cause and effect.

Lengthwise crack formation in tread rubber is related to the "drying" or hardening of the rubber that happens as tires age and the platisizers no longer keep them pliable. These usually form along the edges of any under tread belt, but can also form at the side of the crown as the tire flattens against the road up to that width and that zone sees the most back and forth flexing. These cracks are not structural and don't lead to blowouts, and the worst effect is that they allow water to enter and break the bonds between tread and body.

Blowouts are caused by a failure of the body plies, and may be a separate age related issue, or more likely the result of cutting, tearing or fracturing of the plies due to some road hazard.

wilkyboy

I put Pro 4's on both ends of my bike at the same time, when my front failed from a split bead caused by brake pad scoring, I put a new Pro 4 on the rear and put the old rear on the front and noticed that it was rotting, which the front one was not. idk why, perhaps it was because of the extra stress on the rear?

Unfortunately for my bike, it gets to sit in the rain because apparently my parents' bikes get to stay in the warm and dry - sucks to own a classic bike sometimes - but dry rot has always been a problem for on other tyres because of the 12/7 UV rays

Go figure...

AnkleWork

+1
It looks like impact damage so kms and age are non-issues.

FBinNY 

Rear tires suffer all kinds of indignities that fronts don't.

The biggest is greater flexing at the contact patch owing to higher axle loading.

Others include things like the reality that riders are good at swinging the front end around road hazards but tend to run the rear right over them. They also get bathed in whatever chemicals and oils drip or leach from the drive train. When you ride on wet roads, the front goes through clear still water, while the read goes through murky with all kinds of stuff that the front wheel stirred up.

So being a bike tire is like wearing a horse costume. You want to be the front, not the rear.

wilkyboy

Now that you've said it, I agree completely - I also noticed that mine's worn off-centre because of my pannier. Maybe I should get a second pannier to balance out the back of the bike?

FBinNY 

Only if you have more to carry. Otherwise, the tire wear issue is very minor and no reason to "correct" something you don't notice when riding.

Also, even without panniers or any load imbalance, tires will wear slightly to the left of center. That's because roads are crowned and you're riding a vertical bike across a slope.

masi61

A few things come to mind about the Michelin Pro4 Endurance tire. 1) the little micro globules (red in color?) that appear to be all over your sidewalls happened to me too - in the rear as yours did. I had been using "Rock-n-Roll" dry (wax) lube that has a red color. I believe the excess applied to the chain sprayed off the spinning wheel & adhered to the sidewall. Just curious: what chain lube do you use?
2) the age of the tire I believe does increase your the risk of the type of blowout you experienced, even with storing these tires correctly. AFAIK The Pro4 Endurance was pretty much the same as the Krylion Carbon before it. The center channel was a lamination of a denser rubber & was supposed to provide increased puncture resistance compared to the "Race" version. Unfortunately, something about the Thailand outsourcing of this tire & the fact that these were sold everywhere @ deep discounts seemed fishy to me. The old Pro2 Race tires proudly said "Made in France" on the sidewall. That version NEVER delaminated like that. Just last month, I rejected my Pro4 Endurance rear tire for a similar in-line delamination. I felt a catastrophic failure coming on, & (like you) the tire had racked up ~3,000 miles before looking like it was about to fall apart.
3) You mentioned you ran them at the correct pressure. Just curious if you are absolutely sure about that? The reason I say this is because, contrary to Continental or Vredestein these tires say that the maximum inflation pressure is 108 psi. That does not mean you can over inflate by 10% & be OK. As these tires age, when inflated at full pressure - I was able to easily see an angle cut around the circumference of the tire where the slightly different center rubber was no longer bonded with the sidewall rubber.
4) There is a reason these were heavily discounted by bicycle on-line retailers in England & America - the promise of durability that the clever design promised, just didn't hold up over time. As others suggest, you should toss the tire in the trash & move on. Live & learn. This might make you feel better though: I am currently using the new version of this tire - The "Power Endurance" and if you shop around, these can be sourced for less than $40 each. Sure, not the screaming cheap deal as the Pro4 Endurance but I get the impression that Michelin made some rubber formulation changes on this tire. Hopefully this will make this more of a 4,000 mile rear tire instead of the 2,000ish mile tire that it was.

(My apologies for the lengthy response, but I felt qualified to answer since I have but spec'ing Michelin clincher tires on my road bikes for over 25 years & despite some of these durability issues I have always appreciated the slightly different ride that these offer compared to other brands).

JohnDThompson 

The rear tire carries more load than the front, and wears faster.

yannisg

[QUOTE=masi61;19789874]A few things come to mind about the Michelin Pro4 Endurance tire. 1) the little micro globules (red in color?) that appear to be all over your sidewalls happened to me too - in the rear as yours did. I had been using "Rock-n-Roll" dry (wax) lube that has a red color. I believe the excess applied to the chain sprayed off the spinning wheel & adhered to the sidewall. Just curious: what chain lube do you use?

I use clear chain lubes such as Finish line and ProGold. The micro globules show up on the front tire too.

3) You mentioned you ran them at the correct pressure. Just curious if you are absolutely sure about that? The reason I say this is because, contrary to Continental or Vredestein these tires say that the maximum inflation pressure is 108 psi. That does not mean you can over inflate by 10% & be OK. As these tires age, when inflated at full pressure - I was able to easily see an angle cut around the circumference of the tire where the slightly different center rubber was no longer bonded with the sidewall rubber.

I don't go over 100psi. Some riders suggest reducing the air pressure when not using the bike. I never done this, and don't know whether it's worth the hassle.

4) There is a reason these were heavily discounted by bicycle on-line retailers in England & America - the promise of durability that the clever design promised, just didn't hold up over time. As others suggest, you should toss the tire in the trash & move on. Live & learn. This might make you feel better though: I am currently using the new version of this tire - The "Power Endurance" and if you shop around, these can be sourced for less than $40 each. Sure, not the screaming cheap deal as the Pro4 Endurance but I get the impression that Michelin made some rubber formulation changes on this tire. Hopefully this will make this more of a 4,000 mile rear tire instead of the 2,000ish mile tire that it was.

I have 2 new Michelin Pro endurance dated 17W/2015 that I'm trying to return them to the online store.

I have used the following tires, and never had any of these issues:
Continental Grand Prix 4000
Schwalbe Durango plus
Hutchinson fusion 3 tubeless
Mavic Yksion

I think I'm going to stay away from Michelin tires for awhile.

Thanks for responding.

yannisg

[QUOTE=FBinNY;19789585]I can't see the photo because I'm not a registered Flckr user. Maybe you can link and post it directly.

Try this link. You should be able to open it.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/yannisg/Ex8jT0

FBinNY 

[QUOTE=yannisg;19791071]OK,

Looking at the "before" photo, it appears you had far more than the normal stress cracking of the tread, and the tire was already pulling apart, as evidenced by the widening of the crack into a significant gap. It's hard to tell from the photo, but I suspect that the tire would have shown a widening visible to the eye, and felt as a bump or thump as you rode.

As I said in the earlier post, the cracks themselves don't matter, but they do expose the body plies to the weather, so it's possible that water got in and started a breakdown of the body plies.

IMO - there's a line that divides OK checking of the tread and not OK damage to the body plies. Your tire was visibly on the wrong side of that line and the blowout was predictable.

The above notwithstanding, I'm surprised at the short life you experienced. Unless there's ore to the story, ie. bad weather conditions, a very heavy rider, chronic underinflation, etc. It's also possible that there were environmental factors during storage.

fietsbob

Shelf life would apply to aging, gumwalls did not age as well as hand made sewups ..

best, in dark away from electric motors ,, to avoid UV & ozone.

yannisg

[QUOTE=FBinNY;19791262][QUOTE=yannisg;19791071]

OK,

Looking at the "before" photo, it appears you had far more than the normal stress cracking of the tread, and the tire was already pulling apart, as evidenced by the widening of the crack into a significant gap. It's hard to tell from the photo, but I suspect that the tire would have shown a widening visible to the eye, and felt as a bump or thump as you rode.


This tire condition shown in the photo did not exist 2 months ago. I wipe the tires down and inspect them at least every month or so. This bike hadn't been used for 6 weeks so I would say that this condition developed within the last 2 to 3 months. The bike is stored in a cool basement, and is not ridden in bad weather conditions or under inflated.
The tires were 3 years old when the were installed new, and we stored in a dark place when they were purchased. I don't know how they were prior to receiving them.
The michelin tires I buy at 2 years old already which might be the case with other tires. I'll have to check.