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Seized bottom bracket

Old 08-27-17, 10:18 AM
  #1  
Bigbadjohn
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Seized bottom bracket

Seized bottom bracket I took it to a good bike shop he could not get it out there was 1/4 sideway play on peddles
he managed to adjust bearing so now no play but it makes a creaking sound better than it was I know it will only get worse. he showed me tool it was a bit flimsy like a giant pair of eyebrow pluckers with pins at the end for the lock ring. he said there are better tools but would be very difficult to remove it was a sealed bearing Italian thread it says cinelli next to where the serial number should be, note this bike does not have a serial I was told because it's strictly a racing bike.
In my opinion, it's a cool looking bike and deserves to be fixed properly

Would this part fit there are more choices from US but they want more for shipping to Canada than item cost

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Last edited by Bigbadjohn; 08-27-17 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 08-27-17, 10:38 AM
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It is indeed an Italian threaded bottom bracket (that's what the 36 mm x 24 tpi means). I can't tell if it's a sealed cartridge or a cup and cone but a proper lockring tool should be able to remove it.

You could replace it with a sealed cartridge bb as long as it's Italian threaded and has the correct spindle length and taper (JIS most probably based on the Shimano crank) or buy a matching bottom bracket and new crank as a pair.
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Old 08-27-17, 10:58 AM
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I think he said it was a sealed unit but if he was able to adjust bearing so no play on cranks does that suggest a cup and cone.
I don't want to buy new cranks as a pair if I can avoid it, this would run into $$$ for an old bike
I have done this before and had to get black cranks much cheaper, as soon as it was riding perfectly it was stolen.

If I buy a few tools I know I can do it my self I have a heat gun like a high powered hair dryer hopefully it won't remove paint, just want to make sure I order right part

Thanks for the reply

Last edited by Bigbadjohn; 08-27-17 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 08-27-17, 11:19 AM
  #4  
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It looks like a Mavic bottom bracket, which may well be a threadless cartridge. To remove it, you'll need to remove the crank arms, then the lockrings. If it is the Mavic cartridge, there will be a lockring on each side. Once the lockrings are off, the cartridge should slide out.

Perhaps this will help:

Removing Mavic SSC bottom bracket
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Old 08-27-17, 03:14 PM
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Thanks for the link will read it again tonight, I can see why my trusted LBS dodged this bullet, he did say it would be expensive.
since he tensioned the bearing there is no crank arm play just a very small squeak ( not 100% sure it's the bearing but think it is ) I might leave it until it gets worse, I have ridden it about 25 miles since the repair and still no play, I have owned the bike for less than 2 weeks and it's not my everyday bike and I paid very little for it.I suspect that was the reason it was sold.

I took red rear wheel off and put on a pair of Ambrosio wheels I had look's much better, will change old bar tape next to blue to tone down the yellow
if you can't make out the name on the frame it's Koichi never heard of it, no doubt Japanese, it has a Roll's copper top seat in like new condition very comfortably
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Old 08-27-17, 04:18 PM
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.
...if you want to replace it with another sealed unit and use those cranks, the two things you need to pay attention to (besides the Italian threading, which you already now know) are the spindle length and the taper of the share shaft where the cranks slide on.

Not certain what it is that is "seized". if it's that dust cap with the two holes in it, you can usually coax them free with some penetrating oil on the thread interface left to soak in on each side for a while.

Obviously, you can't get at the BB unit without first removing the crank arms. which also requires some specialized tools like a socket that will unscrew the fixing bolt, and a puller that threads into the crank arm.

If it's one of those mavic cartridges that uses a chamfered cut on the outside edge of the BB shell, you might be better off finding someone to repair it by pressing out the old bearings and pressing in new ones.


I think maybe you can go back to a regular Italian threaded BB, but sometimes those were put in a bike because the threads were somehow ****ed up, and they don't use the threads of the BB shell to hold in place. So you really need to pull the old one before you spend any money on any new parts.
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Old 08-27-17, 04:56 PM
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I was wondering about it being a Mavic threadless bb also but, if so, why is it engraved 36x24?
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Old 08-27-17, 04:59 PM
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If it's one of these It's best to get it apart and see what you've got. You can carefully tap the bearings out and match them.
Hopefully being loose didn't ruin the chamfer. Make sure it's not your pedals squeaking.

This will show what it looks like inside.





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Old 08-27-17, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I was wondering about it being a Mavic threadless bb also but, if so, why is it engraved 36x24?
...good question. Probably not one of those, then, which makes life easier.
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Old 08-27-17, 08:07 PM
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He said it was that thing with the holes in it that he could not unscrew he showed me a V like tool with a pin on each end
he said you can get better removers but he did not have one.
I know it's not the pedals as they are new and greased, he ground down the end of the crank arm where it connects to the square taper to give it more clearance he said that's where the noise was coming from as the crank hole had worn.

I was thinking of putting some grease into the bottle bolt hole to drip down into BB.
Glad I didn't order anything I nearly did
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Old 08-27-17, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbadjohn View Post
he ground down the end of the crank arm where it connects to the square taper to give it more clearance he said that's where the noise was coming from as the crank hole had worn.
Hmmm, I wonder if the bottom bracket spindle taper is ISO and the crank (a Shimano) is JIS. That would explain why the crank arm traveled too far up the taper and had to be "ground down" ( a very bad idea) to get the needed clearance.

The fact the crank has a "worn hole" also says this is a mis-fit.
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Old 08-27-17, 09:05 PM
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Many thanks to everyone I will wait until it gets worse it's 10 times better than it was and still no play in cranks.
at that time I will take it apart and see what there is, at some point, I will get it fixed now I know all the variables.
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Old 08-28-17, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigbadjohn View Post
I know it's not the pedals as they are new and greased, he ground down the end of the crank arm where it connects to the square taper to give it more clearance he said that's where the noise was coming from as the crank hole had worn.
When I first looked at your pictures I was uncertain but one of the things I was concerned about was that the crank arm appeared to be butted against the bottom bracket. The above very much suggests that would have been the source of the problem. I am not sure how crank holes wear or if such wear would require what appears to be a pretty aggressive solution.... I also wonder whether or not the arm might be cracked...

Yours/Mine. Notice that mine has lots of taper left on the spindle. Yours has none.

Oh, sorry. Hill Rider has already flagged the issue. ISO vs JIS.

..
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Old 08-28-17, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbadjohn View Post
He said it was that thing with the holes in it that he could not unscrew he showed me a V like tool with a pin on each end
he said you can get better removers but he did not have one.
This guy doesn't know how to work a crank dustcap? I'd take my business elsewhere.
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Old 08-28-17, 04:26 PM
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I think your mechanic just doesn't know how to work on old bottom brackets. If you have any diy'r in you, you can take it apart and much will explain itself. You've got to take the dust covers off the crank arms to get to the bolt holding the arms on. Once the arms are off you can adjust the bearings if it's cup and cone. Or remove everything and clean/lube it up.

I too question the gap or lack thereof between the crank arms and the retainer. Seems odd from those I've worked on. Maybe the P.O. put the wrong size back in it. And if anybody did any grinding to make stuff fit, well that's just wrong. Unless you are trying to make the wrong part fit. Which is wrong too. Unless........
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Old 08-28-17, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
This guy doesn't know how to work a crank dustcap? I'd take my business elsewhere.
It is, almost, a thing.. Bottom Bracket of my 1986 Raleigh claims to be Tange and comes with holes to match..

..
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Old 08-29-17, 11:18 AM
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That doesn't look like it would fit a crank dust cap.
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Old 08-29-17, 11:28 AM
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Good spot. It does however fit the NDS cup on the bottom bracket of the bike.
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Old 08-29-17, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That doesn't look like it would fit a crank dust cap.
The other end of Shimano's old chainring bolt tool works to remove those dustcaps:



Otherwise, the Park "green" pin spanner ought to work:


Last edited by JohnDThompson; 08-29-17 at 04:26 PM.
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