Phil Wood BB issues
 

A few months ago I replaced the worn out bottom bracket on one of my old bikes hat has Nuovo Record crankset.
I installed a new Phil Wood 115mm ISO BB and was able to align the chainline perfectly with the adjustable cups.

Last week I started having trouble shifting (friction shifter 12-speed) and noticed my chainline had moved 4mm to the RH side.

I remember measuring the BB before installing it and noticed the spindle was symmetrical, but now when I measured I see that it is no longer symmetrical, one side sticks out 23mm and the other is 32mm.

How could the spindle have moved to the RH side all by itself?

You didn't tighten the cups enough.....or,
you put the cartridge in backwards.

Either I didn't explain very clearly or you don't understand my question.

Symmetrical means the spindle is equal length on both sides, therefore it makes no difference which way and there is no backwards way (though the instructions does say to install it with the "L" in Phil towards the drive side).

Nothing to do with tightening the cups either, as I stated in my post what was once a symmetrical spindle is now asymmetrical after a few months of usage. If the cups were not tight enough there would be side to side play or looseness, there isn't.

My assumption is that the press fit between the spindle and the bearing inner races must not be tight enough.
Has anyone experienced this before?

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...no, those Phil Wood cartridges really are directional (regardless of spindle end symmetry). If you install them backwards, they will do exactly what you are describing. Not making this up, I think it used to say so on their website.

It DOES make a difference if you put in backwards. The PHIL must be orientated correctly as it always pushes toward the drive side from the left hand crank arm. It's the way the cartridge is made. Look how it is made.

Maybe it's just me or you guys are not reading what I said.

I did install it in the direction shown in the instructions, as I mentioned in my post #2.

Please explain how it pushes to the drive side?

I'm sure there are side to side forces while pedaling, but surely not enough to overcome a press fit spindle onto bearings.

...OK, I'm not there. I'm just telling you that since you now need to take it out to figure out what's going on anyway, this is one of the things you need to be aware of and to check the orientation.

It is a function of the internal construction of the cartridge, the shoulder they machine on the spindle, and the natural physical force of precession as you pedal.


If you take it out, you ought to be able to diagnose what has happened once it's apart.

They guarantee their stuff as long as it's installed correctly.

I did remove the bottom bracket cartridge from the frame and that is how I measured it to determine that the spindle has moved sideways.

I do have a lot of experience with mechanical "things" I am 61-yo, have been a mechanic most of my life, and my specialty is building motorcycle racing engines. Though I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, I've rebuilt many since my first in 1972.

Anyway, I plan on taking the spindle apart using a hydraulic press so I can see what's inside.
I'll be disappointed if I see that it is a straight shaft without any steps to keep the assembly on center in the bearing races.

I'm not too concerned with any warranty, just trying to understand how a press fit spindle can move from side to side so easily.

thanks

Years ago, I managed to move/offset the spindle on a Phil BB. From what I recall, I was using the consumer installation tool and if you tilt it a bit, you can manage to put some force/torque on the spindle and not just the cups. I would send it in to have them realign it.

I just disassembled the cartridge for inspection and here's what I found:

-the press fit between the spindle and cartridge bearings is not very tight, maybe .0005" interference fit.
-there is indeed a step or shoulder on the spindle between the bearings, it is not a machined part of the spindle but a press fit ring placed at the appropriate position.
-in reference to the instructions from Phil that dictates the cartridge should be installed with the "L" in Phil towards the drive side, that sleeve is pressed onto the LH non-drive side of my spindle.

It seems that there is indeed enough force while pedaling to cause the spindle to move towards the drive side. This leads me to believe my cartridge was assembled incorrectly from the factory, that pressed on sleeve should have been on the drive side of the spindle, thus preventing the movement I experienced.

I've re-assembled the cartridge with the sleeve positioned on the drive side of the spindle (just flipped the spindle around). I'll ride it and see if it stays put this time.

Thank you all for being patient with me and my apologies for being so argumentative in dealing with my frustrations.

Sounds like they put it together wrong.
After reassembling it did it come back symmetrical? and smooth turning?

Interesting read. I have no comment. Last winter I bought a symmetrical narrow PH BB for my fix gear project. Cranked in almost all of the available offset to the right. My inside 38t chainring sits barely off the pant of the chainstay, the left crank misses by about1/2 a cm. Nothing has moved in probably 2000 miles. So far, the nicest BB I have ever used and I love that PW makes it possible to get exactly what you want (esp if you want to keep the left pedal close to minimize Q-factor for knees).

Ben

Yes, exactly 27.5mm sticking out on each side and spins smoothly.