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Poor stopping with TRP Spyres

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Poor stopping with TRP Spyres

Old 11-08-17, 06:47 PM
  #1  
KaisoArt
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Poor stopping with TRP Spyres

I have a recumbent and an Montague Folder. The Montague came with terrible components especially the brakes. I built my recumbent with BB7s, iLink housings, Jagwire pro cables, and Avid Speed Dial 7 levers. This worked great on my loaded tours.

I decided to upgrade the Montague to disks. I took the BB7's off the recumbent and used those. Works great. I bought TRP Spyres for the Recumbent. Nothing else changed. However, the Spyres do not stop the bike nearly as well as the BB7s. They feel very spongy. I've had two suggestions as to why.

1. eBay sellers, (my purchase) sometimes remove the quality stock pads on Spyres, replace them with cheap ones, and sell the originals separately. Therefore, crappy pads = poor stopping.

2. Since Spyres are "road calipers" the lever pull of the Speed dials is wrong. I always thought the adjustability of Speed dials would make them compatible?

Could this be pads, levers, or both? If so, any suggestions on quality pads and/or compatible flat bar levers for the Spyres?
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Old 11-08-17, 08:53 PM
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wschruba
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Speed dials are variable pull, but even on the shorter end, they are not short-pull levers.

You ought to just get a cheap pair of u-brake levers from a BMX shop, as they do the same pull as caliper/cantilever levers.
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Old 11-08-17, 09:01 PM
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Spyres are just weak brakes
has been my experience as well
I replaced mine with a BB7 and was much happier.

I also tried compressionless housing first, and that helped a little bit; but nowhere near as much change as simply swapping them out.
-Yokozuna Reaction compressionless housing system.


what you might do, is since you have 2 bikes:
is split the difference, share between both bikes.
put the BB7s as the front brakes
and the Spyres as the rear brakes


This way you get Strong front braking on both of them
and the weaker Spyres go in the rears where the deficiency isn't such a big deal, and the increased 'modulation' of the Spyres might actually be kinda useful.

Last edited by xenologer; 11-08-17 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 11-08-17, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
any suggestions on compatible flat bar levers for the Spyres?
SRAM S-700: https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ad-brake-lever

Shimano BL-R550: https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-R55...d-Brake-Levers
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Old 11-09-17, 04:57 PM
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.. maybe the Spykes and V brake levers


I;m now using TRP Hy Rd

Speed dial lever dialed back , I left a bunch of cable slack to take up before the pads start moving to the disc.. that made it manageable ..

160 disc 20" wheels.. so disc is like 1/3 of the wheel diameter.. relatively huge..







......

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-28-19 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 11-09-17, 08:28 PM
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The stock spyre pads are garbage btw.
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Old 11-10-17, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
I bought TRP Spyres for the Recumbent. Nothing else changed.
If you don't have compressionless housing then that's your problem. It reads right on the TRP website that they require that.
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Old 11-10-17, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
If you don't have compressionless housing then that's your problem. It reads right on the TRP website that they require that.
I built with alligator iLink aluminum segmented housing which is compressionless.

Really, I have the levers adjusted such that when the brakes are actuated the levers are not close to their full travel. It just feels like if the rotors are greased. I'll swap out the Pads and levers individually and see which fixes it.
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Old 11-10-17, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
I built with alligator iLink aluminum segmented housing which is compressionless.

Really, I have the levers adjusted such that when the brakes are actuated the levers are not close to their full travel. It just feels like if the rotors are greased. I'll swap out the Pads and levers individually and see which fixes it.
Then the problem is your levers, or more specifically the cable pull ratio. TRP's are designed for Shimano Super SLR. Your levers probably don't pull enough cable. There's you tube videos of people modyfing the hy/rd's for Campy levers. Maybe it will work with your setup.
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Old 11-10-17, 04:07 PM
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redlude97
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Then the problem is your levers, or more specifically the cable pull ratio. TRP's are designed for Shimano Super SLR. Your levers probably don't pull enough cable. There's you tube videos of people modyfing the hy/rd's for Campy levers. Maybe it will work with your setup.
it won't. very different designs.
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Old 11-10-17, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KaisoArt View Post
2. Since Spyres are "road calipers" the lever pull of the Speed dials is wrong. I always thought the adjustability of Speed dials would make them compatible?
The speed dial adjustment was made to fine-tune the leverage, but it does not have enough adjustment to work well as a road lever. I actually use the shortest pull setting on my mtb disc and rim calipers. I canít imagine it feeling too good on road calipers.

Out of curiosity, why didnít you just get the Spykes instead? They are made to go with long cable pull levers like the Speed Dials.
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Old 11-11-17, 11:12 AM
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This summer several bikes ridden across the continent had those brakes,

they may have just not had this site, to complain about their brakes not meeting your expectations.




I have speed dial levers and BB7 Mountain disc brakes , were the build on my Bike Friday.. 160 discs , 20" wheels .
front dialed one way , rear the full pull, opposite, but still have to be careful on the front, they work so well i get the bike to stop out from under me.

Noises, less, better after I put in Kool Stop disc pads, Organic compound, ... this is a transportation bike..

> update .. see # 5.. <




....

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-28-19 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 11-11-17, 12:39 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Out of curiosity, why didnít you just get the Spykes instead? They are made to go with long cable pull levers like the Speed Dials.
Thanks for the response. As I mentioned in the OP I built the bike using BB7s and they worked well with the Speed dials. Several recumbent manufacturers speced similar setups. Then some began changing to Spyres. I never looked to see which levers they were using! I was also able to find the Spyres at a good price. I've ordered new levers and I'll see how that works. Then pads if no improvement. It's all education for me at this point.

Thanks all for the responses.
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Old 02-27-19, 04:18 PM
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I'm having a similar dilemma and just bought a Spyke for my rear. I have tried 2 different levers on my Spyres and did not like the feel & performance. Wondering if you've tried any of these as listed earlier ( I have not and would like to know before installing my Spyke):

SRAM S-700: https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ad-brake-lever

Shimano BL-R550: https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-R55...d-Brake-Levers
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Old 02-27-19, 05:27 PM
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I installed Spyre road calipers on my son's bike along with compressionless housing from Jagwire and they work very good. His brifters are 2014 Shimano 105. No problems whatsoever with braking performance. Modulation is good, stopping power is good. Not like hydro systems, but way less hassle to maintain.
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Old 02-27-19, 05:44 PM
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I have both the Spyke and Spyre brakes, which I use with Campagnolo ten speed levers (and compressionless housing) from around 2000. They work very, very well.
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Old 02-28-19, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
The stock spyre pads are garbage btw.
What are some good replacement pads? My wife's bike has these brakes, they're OK, but she doesn't feel that confident with them. If there are better pads, I'd like to try these first before more involved options.
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Old 02-28-19, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
I installed Spyre road calipers on my son's bike along with compressionless housing from Jagwire and they work very good. His brifters are 2014 Shimano 105. No problems whatsoever with braking performance. Modulation is good, stopping power is good. Not like hydro systems, but way less hassle to maintain.
Originally Posted by Aubergine View Post
I have both the Spyke and Spyre brakes, which I use with Campagnolo ten speed levers (and compressionless housing) from around 2000. They work very, very well.
Ok, so it appears that Spyre Road calipers do well with road levers. Indeed, I was satisfied with my Spyres on my drop bars (with TRP road levers) prior to conversion. Completely different story after flat bar conversion. I actually bought a TRP Spyke (MTB caliper) to mount on my rear as an experiment.

Does anyone have any experience with the Spyres coupled with flat-bar levers specifically designed to work with road calipers, like the two levers in the hyperlinks: SRAM S-700: https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ad-brake-lever

Shimano BL-R550: https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-R55...d-Brake-Levers
...?

Last edited by michaelm101; 02-28-19 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 02-28-19, 05:07 PM
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redlude97
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
What are some good replacement pads? My wife's bike has these brakes, they're OK, but she doesn't feel that confident with them. If there are better pads, I'd like to try these first before more involved options.
shimano b01s is a direct replacement that is cheap and are resin for best initial bite and reduced noise. They don't last long but work well
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Old 02-28-19, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
shimano b01s is a direct replacement that is cheap and are resin for best initial bite and reduced noise. They don't last long but work well
And if you don't want the shorter life of resin pads I've had good experience so far with the Jagwire semi-metallic equivalent. The DCA016 found on their site: Jagwire disc pads. I definitely agree with others that the stock TRP pads are not good. Mine lasted a good long while, maybe 2000 miles on the front, but they took a long time to bed in and truly feel like good braking performance.
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Old 02-28-19, 06:01 PM
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Nope, no direct experience with them.
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Old 02-28-19, 06:08 PM
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Thanks, I'll try some Shimano or Jagwire pads. She probably has 5,000 or so miles on her bike, bought new in 2015, I've never changed the pads. I look at them once in a while, and I've adjusted them a couple times, but looks like there is still a lot of pad left. but she's not a fast rider and mostly rides flat terrain. but if I can improve the stopping power for the price of pads, she'll be happy!
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Old 03-01-19, 07:06 AM
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One other idea -- I don't think the original post was clear on this. You said you upgraded your Montague with disc brakes, and you appeared to swap over the BB7s. Does that mean you swapped the Avid rotors over as well? Then you bought TRP Spyres. Did they come with new rotors, or did you use existing rotors? In either case, did you thoroughly clean the rotors with rubbing alcohol, scuff the pads up, and bed the brakes?

I have found make disc brakes to feel pretty soft until thoroughly bedded-in. This may be why the BB7s feel good (because they already have use on them) and why the Spyres feel soft. This might require a proper bedding procedure (20 hard stops from 15 mph or so) or just many miles of use until you get enough pad material onto the brake rotors. Cleaning the rotors (or even sanding them if they are used) and scuffing the pads with sand paper can help accelerate this process, or at least get you setup right from the start for a good bed-in.

This may not be your only issue (others have mentioned the levers and maybe even poor quality pads), but it could be a contributing factor.
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Old 03-01-19, 08:13 PM
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I've had Spyres on my Culprit road bike since 2013. The only problem is the occasional squeak under light braking. They stop great. I was happy with the stock pads, but my shop had Jagwire pads, then later, I've used Shimano. All worked equally well. My brake levers are Ultegra Di2, and the whole system is OEM to the bike. I have TRP rotors on one set of wheels, and Magura on another set. First some reason, I like the feel of the Maguras, and they seem to squeal less. I've only ridden hydro brakes around the parking lot, and they seemed grabby to me. I think the cable brakes are easier to modulate, but probably just thru my familiarity with the Spyres. It is important to keep the rotors clean, no matter what type you ride.
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Old 03-02-19, 03:59 PM
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I have Spyres with Apex levers and Jagwire housings on my CX. Love them. The original pads did wear out about 1500mi and now using the regular resin Shimano pads and its been working for me also. I think the Shimanos are a bit better and don't fade as much when doing long down hills. Haven't tried the semi-metallic ones yet and feel I don't need them since I ride mostly when its dry. I did find it interesting that the original pads did smell after a long steep down hill and that didn't make me feel too good but glad they held up. Did not notice that on the same ride with the Shimanos. I would probably go with semi-metallic if i did hills more often.

Swap pads is easy and cheap. Do those first.
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