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Tourney & Sante compatiblity?

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Tourney & Sante compatiblity?

Old 11-12-17, 04:10 PM
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rickpaulos
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Tourney & Sante compatiblity?

I'm rebuilding an old Klein road bike.
It came with Deore 7 speed index thumb shifters on the drop bars. Ugh.

I put on some new Tourney 3x7 speed STI-style levers model A073. The cable pull is totally inadequate for the front derailleur. The full shifter range is enough to shift from the small chain ring to the middle but that's it.
The existing front derailleur is a Sante FD-5000 for braze on mounts, mounted on a bolt on clamp adapter AD-10 1 1/4".
The crank set is a Shimano 105 triple 52-42-30 FC-1057.

So I figure the next step is a different front derailleur that is compatible with the new shifters.

Any suggestions for a front derailleur?

The rear shifter works fine. Shimano Exage 300LX RD-M300 with a 7 speed freewheel (not cassette).

Last edited by rickpaulos; 11-12-17 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 11-12-17, 04:16 PM
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they are both Shimano .. tried it yet?

probably need a triple front derailleur that fits the adapter, if it is made to function like a braze on. then you get a braze on version.
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Old 11-12-17, 04:37 PM
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yeah, both shifter and front derailleur are Shimano and I'm wondering why it didn't work.

More research shows Klein used to sell framesets only for some models. This bike has no decals other than the USA flag decal supplied on Klein so I'm not sure what model it is. Perhaps a Quantum. That would explain the odd mix of parts on the bike. Either a braze on version or a clamp on would fit (1.25").
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Old 11-12-17, 06:01 PM
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MTB front derailleurs don't have the same cable pull requirements as road front derailleurs so you will probably have to get a road specific fd.
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Old 11-12-17, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
MTB front derailleurs don't have the same cable pull requirements as road front derailleurs so you will probably have to get a road specific fd.
Wasn't Sante a road group?

Velobase says for double. https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d-9ebfbdc5cabf
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Old 11-12-17, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Wasn't Sante a road group?

Velobase says for double. VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FD-5000-F, Sante

yes. Came in White too. White levers, brake calipers, shift levers, derailleurs, cranks. Shows the dirt and scuff marks very well.
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Old 11-12-17, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Wasn't Sante a road group?

Velobase says for double. VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FD-5000-F, Sante
Right it was, I wonder if it is compatible with current indexing, even road stuff.
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Old 11-12-17, 09:28 PM
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I don't think Sante front derailleurs ever had an STI front shifter. I only recall the white downtube shifters and the left (front) was friction. I doubt it will work.

John
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Old 11-12-17, 09:35 PM
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It appears only the rear was indexed.

Shimano Bicycle System Components - 1989 scan 15

Shimano Bicycle System Components - 1989 scan 14
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Old 11-12-17, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The Sante front does have plenty of reach to cover the 3 rings. It works fine if I just pull on the cable. The 14t max listed in the specs doesn't seem to be the max. It covers the 52-42-30 okay (22t) in most gear combos. But apparently the cable pull requirements are different.

Last edited by rickpaulos; 11-12-17 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 11-13-17, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rickpaulos View Post
The Sante front does have plenty of reach to cover the 3 rings. It works fine if I just pull on the cable. The 14t max listed in the specs doesn't seem to be the max. It covers the 52-42-30 okay (22t) in most gear combos. But apparently the cable pull requirements are different.
It will never work since the Sante FD was never indexed. I'm sure there have been people who have tried but for all I know the pull may not even be consistent between small-middle and middle-large.

You need to get a triple FD that will shift with the brifters. Probably an Ultegra 6401 would be a comparable front derailleur. I'm sure others have good or better recommendations.

Then again, maybe just get a tourney front derailleur.

John

Edit added: Changed to 6401 to be compatible with 7/8 speed chainring spacing.

Last edited by 70sSanO; 11-13-17 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 11-13-17, 09:50 AM
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This is a little off topic. Supposedly different chainring spacing (8-10 speed) effects the indexing. On my wife's bike I am able to run a 10 speed crank with 8 speed, Claris, and a Tiagra 10 speed FD without any front shifting issues.

Are there really chainring spacing problems or can the OP go with any 8-10 triple road front derailleur?

Understand the rear indexing doesn't matter because the RD pull is the same and driven by the shifters, but having a senior moment on the FD. I think it doesn't matter but doctor changed my perscription on stupid pills so I am a little foggy.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 11-13-17 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 11-13-17, 10:10 AM
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This bike is running a Sante front derailleur with 10 speed STI shifters and shifts beautifully.
If you say it has enough travel, I would say it should work. But a triple derailleur would work better anyways. Pickup a Claris triple front derailleur, they are cheap and made for 8 speed so close enough.

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Old 11-13-17, 01:37 PM
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IMO, the current Tourney front derailleurs are rather low quality. Not much different from what comes on $89 box mart bikes. I'd like something a bit better for the Klein. I intend to sell the bike so that may not really matter as long as it works for a test ride.

The velobase specs say the 6401 was for a double.

The bike has a 7 speed triple chain ring crank & 7 speed freewheel. Surely the chain ring spacing is wider (plus thicker chainrings) than what you see on newer 9/10/11 speed bikes so the older front derailleurs need to reach farther and the cable pull in the sti front levers would need to be more.

In looking at some derailleurs, the reach would partially be related to the length of the top swing arm and where the pivot point is. With friction shift, it just doesn't matter, just move the lever farther. But with sti, the stop points are preset in the lever so the levers are designed to work with specific derailleurs, specific spacing on the crank and a specific chain line (from the seat tube). Since nearly every front der cage swings out in an arc, the cable pull vs cage movement isn't always a linear relationship. Having a different length bb axle could put the cage in a different point in the arc vs the preset clicks in the lever. Some sti and grip shift left shifters have 2 clicks which require everything to be compatible, some have about 10 clicks which is much more forgiving and allows for trimming. Such fun with front ders. 1000s of models (just from Shimano) to choose from. I've seen some that have specific chain ring sizes stamped on the cage that it is compatible with. Others with chain stay angle specs and so on. My advice to most looking for a new front der is to find a replacement with the same part number. But this bike was apparently sold as "frameset only" and it was pieced together with a total mix of components and modified who knows how many times since it was new circa 1990.
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Old 11-13-17, 04:11 PM
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The more I think about it, the more I think a FD-5503, 6503, or 7703 might work. I have never run them with a 7 speed triple with brifters. If the actuation is the same regardless of the rear speeds and is determined by the shifter it should work.

John
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