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Chain lubricants and wear

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Chain lubricants and wear

Old 01-01-18, 11:44 AM
  #101  
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Depending on roller wear, some of those tools (except the Shimano one) would give a "false alarm" sooner than the ruler would confirm it.
0.5% is a rule of thumb recommendation for chain replacement if wanting to prolong cassette sprocket wear and replacement.

Spin doctor pictures of "0.75" and "1.0" aren't measured over the same links. Not all the links wear the same in my experience. One of the reasons I prefer using a ruler over at least 10" length.

1/16" over 12" is just over 0.5% elongation, not 0.7%.

EDIT:
This is interesting, what I mentioned (found the pics, finally). Using a tool between inner and outer plates gave different reading. This tool usually shows "1" when the ruler confirms a chain is worn. The chain wasn't too clean, but the reading mismatch depending on whether the inner or outer plates were used as a reference was consistent along the chain length.




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Old 01-01-18, 11:52 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
1/16" over 12" is just over 0.5% elongation, not 0.7%.
I calculated "one part out of 144 parts"... oops!
Steve
EDIT: I feel more confident with one of these gauges rather than eyeballing a ruler.
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Old 01-01-18, 12:08 PM
  #103  
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I read the article written by John Allen on SheldonBrown.com which includes an ancient recipe for "factory lube" using paraffin and tallow.

Tallow is a tad hard to come by in my house but I have paraffin and coconut oil on hand, think I could mix the two and wind up with the "factory, sticky-wax effect" John Allen describes?

Should I just try it and let you guys know?
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Old 01-01-18, 01:13 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Depending on roller wear, some of those tools (except the Shimano one) would give a "false alarm" sooner than the ruler would confirm it.
0.5% is a rule of thumb recommendation for chain replacement if wanting to prolong cassette sprocket wear and replacement.

Spin doctor pictures of "0.75" and "1.0" aren't measured over the same links. Not all the links wear the same in my experience. One of the reasons I prefer using a ruler over at least 10" length.

1/16" over 12" is just over 0.5% elongation, not 0.7%.

EDIT:
This is interesting, what I mentioned (found the pics, finally). Using a tool between inner and outer plates gave different reading. This tool usually shows "1" when the ruler confirms a chain is worn. The chain wasn't too clean, but the reading mismatch depending on whether the inner or outer plates were used as a reference was consistent along the chain length.



On a severely worn chain, only every other roller engages the sprocket. On a dirty chain It can be spotted directly as every other roller will get a different metallic color, rather than black and greasy.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 01-01-18 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 01-01-18, 01:17 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
On a severely worn chain, only every other roller engages the sprocket. It can be spotted directly on the chain as every other roller will get a different metallic color, rather than black and greasy.
Yes, all the elongation happens between the two pairs of outer links. Explained it in detail with pics and videos here.

I still think the reason for the errors of the tool in the pic is that outer plates allow it to sit a bit diagonally. Something to look out for when using such tools for wear measurement.

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Old 01-01-18, 01:31 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Depending on roller wear, some of those tools (except the Shimano one) would give a "false alarm" sooner than the ruler would confirm it.
I'd rather change chains too early than wear out my gears prematurely.

Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Spin doctor pictures of "0.75" and "1.0" aren't measured over the same links.
I think we're splitting hairs here. I checked 4 or 5 random places on the chain and got similar readings. I think it's a reasonably safe assumption that all the links wear at about the same rate.
The ruler test can always be done as the "definitive" wear gauge after "screening" with one of the other gauges.
Steve
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Old 01-01-18, 01:39 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
I'd rather change chains too early than wear out my gears prematurely.


I think we're splitting hairs here. I checked 4 or 5 random places on the chain and got similar readings. I think it's a reasonably safe assumption that all the links wear at about the same rate.
The ruler test can always be done as the "definitive" wear gauge after "screening" with one of the other gauges.
Steve
Just note the two pics in the edited version of my post above. Something to look out for IMO.

For chain checkers - the "non-Shimano" ones are good as a warning when to start double checking with a ruler. Shimano one is a more precise option. Relying only on the imprecise checkers will result in just what you say: preservation of chainrings, but (often) needless change of a chain that is still good (but, of course, not new).

Each gets to decide for themselves which is the best option for them.
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Old 01-01-18, 01:43 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Each gets to decide for themselves which is the best option for them.
We agree!
Steve
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Old 01-01-18, 03:11 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
I read the article written by John Allen on SheldonBrown.com which includes an ancient recipe for "factory lube" using paraffin and tallow.

Tallow is a tad hard to come by in my house but I have paraffin and coconut oil on hand, think I could mix the two and wind up with the "factory, sticky-wax effect" John Allen describes?

Should I just try it and let you guys know?
You could give it a try, in the name of science. Or stick with the tried and true, and get some of this stuff:

Cosmoline for Sale - Cosmoline Direct Rust Preventives, Sprays & More
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Old 01-01-18, 03:46 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Yes, all the elongation happens between the two pairs of outer links.
Over the number of links included by the gauge, wouldn't the length increase be pretty much the same on average?
FWIW, I put the Shimano tool in 10 consecutive gaps and got the same "worn" result each time.
Steve
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Old 01-01-18, 05:11 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
You could give it a try, in the name of science. Or stick with the tried and true, and get some of this stuff:

Cosmoline for Sale - Cosmoline Direct Rust Preventives, Sprays & More
I will try the Coconut/Paraffin homebrew and report back you via this thread with the results... I love the way new chains feel and that is the effect I am going for!!!

That said, not sure how far in to the wax vs oil debate I wish to wade!
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Old 01-01-18, 10:13 PM
  #112  
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FWIW, here are images of the chain with a ruler: one at the "zero" point and the other at 12 inches out. I think by any measure, this chain can be replaced.
Steve
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Chain Wear Origin.JPG (521.9 KB, 93 views)
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Chain Wear 12 inces.JPG (490.0 KB, 91 views)
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Old 01-01-18, 10:49 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
For chain checkers - the "non-Shimano" ones are good as a warning when to start double checking with a ruler. Shimano one is a more precise option.
The recently-released Pedros chain checker works on the same principle as the Shimano, and costs a lot less: https://pedros.com/products/tools/ca...ecker-plus-ii/
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Old 01-02-18, 12:53 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
Over the number of links included by the gauge, wouldn't the length increase be pretty much the same on average?
FWIW, I put the Shimano tool in 10 consecutive gaps and got the same "worn" result each time.
Steve
Depends on a chain/chainring combo. I'd prefer if the tools were made a bit longer - to compensate for any tool wear and error. Having said that - the tools err on the "safe side", so the only downside is replacing the chain a bit earlier than necessary. That's good for bike shops, manufacturers - and most consumers don't mind/bother.
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Old 01-02-18, 06:11 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
I'd prefer if the tools were made a bit longer - to compensate for any tool wear and error.
I agree. It's not like these tools have to be portable. When I take the old chain off, I'll hang it next to the new one and snap an image to show the elongation over the whole length!

@Shimagnolo: I found the Shimano gauge on eBay for $21. But the Pedro's tool looks interesting.
Steve
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Old 01-02-18, 02:11 PM
  #116  
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I've been rocking a new formula from Pedros. It's a medium dry lube, supposedly made from bees wax. It's called Slick Wax. The old formula used to clump and coagulate after a time, especially in cold weather, but the new formula is pretty good. Personally, I think it's less (more?) than a medium dry lube, but I don't mind because I use high pressure air, and re-lube before almost every ride when it's really dry like it is now. It held up nicely over the summer in higher elevations, where it's a little more wet, but in super dry conditions it sheds like crazy.

I think I still prefer a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of dumonde lite and medium for my all-round riding, but Pedros sent me a jug for free.
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Old 01-06-18, 05:24 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
When I take the old chain off, I'll hang it next to the new one and snap an image to show the elongation over the whole length!
Here are those images. About 4mm of elongation over the entire chain.
Steve
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Old 01-07-18, 02:19 AM
  #118  
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0.5% elongation along 52" is about 6 mm elongation.
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Old 01-07-18, 04:04 AM
  #119  
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As I said on a similar thread, use those chain check tools (if you have one, if not, use a ruler) until it starts telling you the chain's worn out. THEN you start using a ruler to do it properly.

Why? Because the chain check tool is quick and easy and it's never going to tell you the chain is fine when it is badly worn.
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Old 01-07-18, 04:15 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
As I said on a similar thread, use those chain check tools (if you have one, if not, use a ruler) until it starts telling you the chain's worn out. THEN you start using a ruler to do it properly.

Why? Because the chain check tool is quick and easy and it's never going to tell you the chain is fine when it is badly worn.
+1

Though, as qick and easy as a chain checker tool, lifting the chain off a largest chainring is also a quick way to test.

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Old 01-07-18, 04:35 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
+1

Though, as qick and easy as a chain checker tool, lifting the chain off a largest chainring is also a quick way to test.

Bbbbbut, you get greasy fingers

It wasn't long ago that this was the only method promoted to the great unwashed.
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Old 01-07-18, 04:44 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
Bbbbbut, you get greasy fingers

It wasn't long ago that this was the only method promoted to the great unwashed.
It's not my fault your drivetrain is dirty!
But you could use a paper (tissue).
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Old 01-07-18, 07:22 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
As I said on a similar thread, use those chain check tools (if you have one, if not, use a ruler) until it starts telling you the chain's worn out. THEN you start using a ruler to do it properly.

Why? Because the chain check tool is quick and easy and it's never going to tell you the chain is fine when it is badly worn.
Unless one rides hundreds of miles per week or has a stable of bikes a ruler is plenty quick and easy. Most who have chain checkers just like having another tool. If saving time was truly a big concern among BF folks we would not see 5 pages of posts on this and even less earth-shaking topics.
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Old 01-07-18, 08:24 AM
  #124  
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Hmmmm.

I'm thinking that if I paid myself a reasonable hourly wage for the time I've spent reading chain lube threads I could easily pay for chain replacements for the rest of my life.
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Old 01-07-18, 09:29 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Hmmmm.

I'm thinking that if I paid myself a reasonable hourly wage for the time I've spent reading chain lube threads I could easily pay for chain replacements for the rest of my life.
I gotta say, BF probably has the best collection of chain lube threads. More than one person would ever, should ever, want to know. It's a real gold mine.
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