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I've Got Bad Holes

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Old 12-01-17, 07:11 AM
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I've Got Bad Holes

Hah! I knew that title would make it hard to resist clicking on this thread!

What I have is a Campy hubset that I want to lace up, but the spoke holes are kind of gross. The holes are rough and there is raised metal around the edges. I want to save these hubs, but not sure that I want to lace them up to good rims and nice spokes if its like this. I've built and repaired dozens of wheels, but never ran across a set of hubs quite like this.



Should I use a countersink and chamfer these holes to smooth them out? Maybe I could drill them out and use a fatter-gauge spoke? No matter what I do, I'll need to polish these up if they are to be used.



Any suggestions?
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Old 12-01-17, 07:24 AM
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Paper weights?
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Old 12-01-17, 07:32 AM
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As long as you use the original spoking pattern (i.e., with the elbow of each spoke resting in the worn-looking channel in the hub), the hub should be OK. (Related trivia: from what I was once told by a Campy rep back when Campy components had a lifetime warranty, hubs with broken flanges that showed two channels at opposite sides of each spoke hole wouldn't be covered under warranty.)

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Old 12-01-17, 07:33 AM
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There's nothing wrong here. This is what spoke holes look like when the hub is built up and the spokes bed. You never noticed because The spokes hide the "damage".

Lace them using the same pattern, and the spokes will bed the same way, solving your cosmetic problem.
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Old 12-01-17, 08:17 AM
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One point that many miss when dealing with these classic hubs is that of spoke diameter. Many older hubs I started my career working with were drilled for 15 gage spokes, including Campy. When using 14 gage spokes the flange holes get even more "opened up" then then with 15s. What does this mean? Pretty much every AL hub will show this hole wear to some degree. These older hubs with their slightly smaller holes tend to show more hole wear. What to do? Lace up and ride as usual but do monitor for flange cracks, especially if you like high tensions or decide (bad choice) to go radial. Luckily a flange failure is not too hard to ride out and come to a stop after. Andy
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Old 12-01-17, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Lace up and ride as usual but do monitor for flange cracks, especially if you like high tensions or decide (bad choice) to go radial.
I remember in the past both Campy and Shimano forbidding radial lacing and refusing to honor the warranty on any of their hub laced that way. Later they designed hubs specifically to tolerate radial spoking.
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Old 12-01-17, 08:56 AM
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Looks normal to me. Build up some nice 3 cross wheels & ride them.
As mentioned, radial on vintage hubs is a no-no.
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Old 12-01-17, 09:12 AM
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Look Fine , just not virgin..

+1) Use the same lacing pattern as was used before, so spokes lay in the same deformations..

the spoke head forming machine leaves tooling marks, in the underside of the head, that is the 2 marks opposite each other.














.....

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Old 12-01-17, 09:50 AM
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Thanks, folks. I knew I could count on you.
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Old 12-01-17, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NoControl View Post
Thanks, folks. I knew I could count on you.
If you are enthusiastic during the polishing process you could probably knock down most of the burrs anyway.
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Old 12-01-17, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
If you are enthusiastic during the polishing process you could probably knock down most of the burrs anyway.
If it were mine and I had some spare time, I'd start with a very fine flat file, then use sandpaper and polish.
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Old 12-01-17, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
If it were mine and I had some spare time, I'd start with a very fine flat file, then use sandpaper and polish.
This is what I was thinking. I do have a buffer...

I think I'll put some time into Sunday and post the results here. I've got some time then.
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Old 12-01-17, 05:49 PM
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These hubs, Campy Nuevo Tipo/Valentino, don't have any anodizing IIRC. So buffing is a neat option. The first tool I'd go to for the trimming off of the spoke ridges is a sharp knife. I would do as little sanding or filing as possible. When a buffed/shinny surface is the goal file or sanding marks are the reason why good buffing takes some care/time. If sanding was needed start with as fine a grit as possible. I've always under judged how long it takes to polish metal. Andy
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Old 12-01-17, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
These hubs, Campy Nuevo Tipo/Valentino, don't have any anodizing IIRC. So buffing is a neat option. The first tool I'd go to for the trimming off of the spoke ridges is a sharp knife. I would do as little sanding or filing as possible. When a buffed/shinny surface is the goal file or sanding marks are the reason why good buffing takes some care/time. If sanding was needed start with as fine a grit as possible. I've always under judged how long it takes to polish metal. Andy
I used to make custom knives for a living, and you are absolutely right - its easy to miscalculate just how much is involved in producing a good finish.
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Old 12-01-17, 09:55 PM
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What about $20 Campy Record large flange hubs from an advertising newspaper? Only problem is the holes drilled oversize. Nothing fatter spokes can't cure.
2_Campy front.JPG

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Old 12-02-17, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
What about $20 Campy Record large flange hubs from an advertising newspaper? Only problem is the holes drilled oversize. Nothing fatter spokes can't cure.
Attachment 590926

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Not bad. Those would shine up pretty good. Use some fat stainless spokes, but lace it to a smaller rim, like a wide 26" or something. Fat spokes look weird to my eye in a tall skinny wheel.
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Old 12-02-17, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NoControl View Post
Not bad. Those would shine up pretty good. Use some fat stainless spokes, but lace it to a smaller rim, like a wide 26" or something. Fat spokes look weird to my eye in a tall skinny wheel.
It's already on a 26"; I used the wide (normal, actually--it's all there was) Araya 7X rim popular in '83 when I did this build. All these parts were on a different frame at that time. And I don't shine my stuff but, fortunately, most of my stuff is not worthy of shining.
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Old 12-02-17, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
What about $20 Campy Record large flange hubs from an advertising newspaper? Only problem is the holes drilled oversize. Nothing fatter spokes can't cure.
Attachment 590926

By the way, clicking is not necessary to see the thread when mousing over the thread title will give a preview.


I'm no Campy expert but I do have more comments- These hubs are the top end, Nouvo Record, and are anodized. As such any buffing done needs to have care and control to that the anodizing layer isn't polished off. If it were that spot will age differently then the rest.


There are smaller holes between the spokes. I suspect these hubs are from Schwinn, who did double drill many for their Paramounts back in the 60s/70s. You might find out that these smaller holes are the OEM spoke holes. BTW count the spokes to make sure their not a 32/40 pair. Andy


On a second look the tiny holes I though I saw now seem to only be dimpling and on the outer face of the LH flange. Odd that someone would oversize the holes.

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Old 12-02-17, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
On a second look the tiny holes I though I saw now seem to only be dimpling and on the outer face of the LH flange. Odd that someone would oversize the holes.
My theory is that someone built these wheels poorly -or- as these wheels encountered road conditions, they were never tuned up and were just ridden. Seen a lot of people just buy a bike and ride it, and when its no longer working for them, sell it to someone else, who in turn does the same thing. A bike could go through many hands and never really get the attention it needs.

I think that I will just polish them lightly and use as is. Since the bike that these will be built for will also be a single-speed, I think I will convert the QR axles to solid as well.
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Old 12-03-17, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
I'm no Campy expert but I do have more comments- These hubs are the top end, Nouvo Record, and are anodized. As such any buffing done needs to have care and control to that the anodizing layer isn't polished off. If it were that spot will age differently then the rest.
No danger of that; I don't polish things.


There are smaller holes between the spokes. I suspect these hubs are from Schwinn, who did double drill many for their Paramounts back in the 60s/70s. You might find out that these smaller holes are the OEM spoke holes. BTW count the spokes to make sure their not a 32/40 pair.

On a second look the tiny holes I though I saw now seem to only be dimpling and on the outer face of the LH flange. Odd that someone would oversize the holes.
36/36, and what is really weird about these is that the small holes are drilled all around one flange of the front hub and only about halfway around the other front flange, with no small holes drilled in the rear. I suspect the original holes were drilled oversize for some reason and the hubs passed on to a second user who attempted to drill new, smaller holes between the large holes and either screwed up or lost interest. I figured I had nothing to lose by building them up with fat spokes to try out as MTB wheels, and they have served me well for decades now with relatively light use.

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