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-   -   New wheelset - tyres REALLY difficult to mount - advice needed! (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1129759-new-wheelset-tyres-really-difficult-mount-advice-needed.html)

Barchettaman 12-04-17 04:41 AM

New wheelset - tyres REALLY difficult to mount - advice needed!
 
Hi chaps,

I“ve bought a new alloy Giant 700c wheelset, and mounting ANY tyre on them is a real pain! I“ve tried Michelins, Vittorias and Contis, they“re all a bugger to get on. I“ve never had any trouble in the past.

- can you recommend a road tyre that“s a little “larger“ in circumference and may prove easier to mount?

- any tips and tricks for mounting tyres? At the moment I am worried about getting a flat out on the road as they are such a pain to put on. I broke a tyre lever today getting the bead on!

Thanks in advance!

Simon

atwl77 12-04-17 06:49 AM

Maybe switch to thinner rim tape, perhaps tubeless rim tape?


Also for that last bit of really stubborn bead, instead of using the tire lever to force it over the rim, use it with just enough force to help you push the bead with your thumb starting at the edges bit by bit (taking care not to pinch the tube, of course)?

cny-bikeman 12-04-17 06:51 AM

Standard recommendations are to push the tire bead toward the center, deeper part of the rim, and to always end near the valve (NOT opposite).

Homebrew01 12-04-17 06:54 AM

Metal tire levers.

jotor 12-04-17 07:37 AM

Spray liberaly with a glass cleaner like Windex. Eases mounting and dries quickly. Also your friend for installing and removing rubber grips.

rccardr 12-04-17 07:58 AM

Warm up the tires by putting them in the sun or using a hairdryer. A friend puts them in the clothes dryer, but not when his wife is around.


Once mounted, tires are usually easier to get off and on again in case of a flat.

HillRider 12-04-17 08:08 AM

The Kool-Stop Tire Bead Jack is by far the best tire installation tool I've ever used. It's strong and will not pinch the tube. It's also small an light enough to use as a take-along tool on your bike for tires that absolutely cannot be installed by hand. Here is Amazon's listing but many LBS's will also sell them:

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tir...tire+bead+jack

dsbrantjr 12-04-17 08:58 AM

[QUOTE=HillRider;20031384]The Kool-Stop Tire Bead Jack is by far the best tire installation tool I've ever used. It's strong and will not pinch the tube. It's also small an light enough to use as a take-along tool on your bike for tires that absolutely cannot be installed by hand.


Good thing it is light enough to take along; if you need it to install tires at home you will need it on the road or you will be stuck when (not if) you get a flat.

JohnDThompson 12-04-17 09:14 AM

[QUOTE=dsbrantjr;20031489]

Originally Posted by HillRider (Post 20031384)
Good thing it is light enough to take along; if you need it to install tires at home you will need it on the road or you will be stuck when (not if) you get a flat.

VAR makes a more portable bead jack. I have the Kool Stop in my shop, and carry the VAR with me on rides.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...oducts/var.jpg

https://www.retro-gression.com/produ...tire-bead-jack

djb 12-04-17 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by Barchettaman (Post 20031191)
Hi chaps,

I“ve bought a new alloy Giant 700c wheelset, and mounting ANY tyre on them is a real pain! I“ve tried Michelins, Vittorias and Contis, they“re all a bugger to get on. I“ve never had any trouble in the past.

- can you recommend a road tyre that“s a little “larger“ in circumference and may prove easier to mount?

- any tips and tricks for mounting tyres? At the moment I am worried about getting a flat out on the road as they are such a pain to put on. I broke a tyre lever today getting the bead on!

Thanks in advance!

Simon

I always recommend this great video that shows an extremely useful technique to gain those few millimeters of extra room to get a tough tire on a rim.


the concept will really help with all difficult rim/tire combinations, and any strap system will work.
Ive even used the concept but no straps, and pushing the tire in and in while holding it sort of with your hands can gain a little bit as well, although straps will work better because the tire will not move back and loose the gains you have achieved by pushing it inwards.

yes, some combinations of rim and tires are terrible, the only other suggestion is to buy a set of really strong tire irons, but using the technique to gain some space is really the best way, and of course you can put a bit of soap along the last bit of rim to help get it over the edge, this can help that tiny bit also.

TimothyH 12-04-17 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by rccardr (Post 20031367)
Warm up the tires by putting them in the sun or using a hairdryer. A friend puts them in the clothes dryer, but not when his wife is around.

Once mounted, tires are usually easier to get off and on again in case of a flat.



I'd have someone's head if I came home and found someone running a 220 volt clothes dryer or 1800 watt hair dryer to heat up a bicycle tire.


-Tim-

djb 12-04-17 09:24 AM

these tire levers are also extremely strong, Pedros brand

https://pedros.com/products/tools/wh...e/tire-levers/

once while helping a friend with a super hard tire, I nearly broke my regular levers, but they had a pair of these, which withstood the hard force we had to use....

would be worth getting these or other thicker, stronger ones for if you ever get a flat on the road...

ThermionicScott 12-04-17 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by cny-bikeman (Post 20031276)
Standard recommendations are to push the tire bead toward the center, deeper part of the rim, and to always end near the valve (NOT opposite).

+1. When I learned to deal with bicycle wheels, I had gotten it into me from somewhere that I should always start at the valve and work my way to the other side when remounting tires. But the valve will end up fighting you the whole way.

With tighter-fitting rims, thinner "tubeless" rim tape and finishing AT the valve are pretty much mandatory! @Barchettaman, if you put Velox rim tape on these wheels, I'd try something else.

Barchettaman 12-04-17 10:04 AM

Many thanks all for the advice, super helpful. I think I've worked it out!

cny-bikeman 12-04-17 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 20031621)
+1. When I learned to deal with bicycle wheels, I had gotten it into me from somewhere that I should always start at the valve and work my way to the other side when remounting tires.

I did it that way for years as a mechanic, as did everyone else. Tires were generally looser back then (70's) so we could get away with it, and there was a certain logic to it. The idea was that you would make sure the tire was properly seated at the valve first. It was not until I went to an Effective Cycling class by John Forrester himself that I learned to do it differently. Once he explained the rationale it made perfect sense, and I never looked back.

Dan Burkhart 12-04-17 10:16 AM

As road rims move toward wider profiles, it appears they are also making the rim center shallower. We are seeing issues with tire mounting with a lot of these newer rims.
The wheels I build for a local shop's branded line are no exception. The most recent batches of rims I've built have about a 27.5 mm outer width and the center section is almost flat. Mounting tires on these is a real bear, I can tell ya, as there is do deep center well to move the bead into.

http://i64.tinypic.com/34pgqxi.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/k20191.jpg

squirtdad 12-04-17 11:00 AM

tire jack, but remember, hard to get on, hard to get off.....practice doing a repair after using this to mount a tire....most likely you will need metal levers


http://www.jensonusa.com/globalasset...p/tl401i11.jpg

fietsbob 12-04-17 11:02 AM

VAR the portable one .. seat bag sized.. I have 2, to put very tight narrow high pressure tires on..


mine came from an 80's purchase, the molded in tire lever is prone to breaking off , so neither, have that left..

I use 3 levers, 1 the VAR, 2 from Michelin, same style ... set all 3 and use them, pulled down, simultaneously ..





:50:



...







....

dsbrantjr 12-04-17 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 20031621)

With tighter-fitting rims, thinner "tubeless" rim tape and finishing AT the valve are pretty much mandatory! @Barchettaman, if you put Velox rim tape on these wheels, I'd try something else.


I have found that Continental Easy tape, being thinner and slicker, is MUCH easier to mount tires than the Velox-type cloth tapes. Kapton tape (2 layers) and filament-reinforced strapping tape are also frequently recommended.

maddog34 12-04-17 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by Homebrew01 (Post 20031280)
Metal tire levers.

+1... no doubt about it, plastic tire levers suck.

Barchettaman... one thing i have taught many a rider... don't get greedy while levering a tire onto a rim... i recommend 3 inches in between new levering points...... and repeatedly insuring that the bead stays in the valley while installing.

i quit using Velox tape YEARS ago, and have never looked back. it is thick, expensive, and not easily reused.... those cheesy plastic rim bands work great, IMO.

and GIANT does not make bicycle rims that i know of, but a company they own probably does.... i hope you paid a normal price for your new wheels, and didn't pay a premium for decals that say "Giant".

davidad 12-04-17 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by djb (Post 20031542)
I always recommend this great video that shows an extremely useful technique to gain those few millimeters of extra room to get a tough tire on a rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUF...nnel=SpaCycles

the concept will really help with all difficult rim/tire combinations, and any strap system will work.
Ive even used the concept but no straps, and pushing the tire in and in while holding it sort of with your hands can gain a little bit as well, although straps will work better because the tire will not move back and loose the gains you have achieved by pushing it inwards.

yes, some combinations of rim and tires are terrible, the only other suggestion is to buy a set of really strong tire irons, but using the technique to gain some space is really the best way, and of course you can put a bit of soap along the last bit of rim to help get it over the edge, this can help that tiny bit also.


I bet that's fun to do in the rain or cold. I don't buy Marathons because of that, even though they last longest.


I have the VAR in my bag. Hard to beat.

Wheever 12-04-17 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by HillRider (Post 20031384)
The Kool-Stop Tire Bead Jack is by far the best tire installation tool I've ever used. It's strong and will not pinch the tube. It's also small an light enough to use as a take-along tool on your bike for tires that absolutely cannot be installed by hand. Here is Amazon's listing but many LBS's will also sell them:

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tir...tire+bead+jack

+1

Makes getting the tightest tires a cinch.:thumb:

Drew Eckhardt 12-04-17 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by Barchettaman (Post 20031191)
Hi chaps,

I“ve bought a new alloy Giant 700c wheelset, and mounting ANY tyre on them is a real pain! I“ve tried Michelins, Vittorias and Contis, they“re all a bugger to get on. I“ve never had any trouble in the past.

Swap your rim tape for 1 mil Kapton. Use 3/4" (19mm) for wide rims, 5/8" (16mm) classic. Use two wraps.

Two layers total .005" with adhesive versus .020" for Velox and .010" for thin tapes/two wraps of packing tape/two wraps of Stans. Velo Plugs are somewhere between Velox and Kapton and are therefore a less optimal solution.

It's also easy to remove, the lightest rim tape, and far less expensive than products marketed for bicycles.


- any tips and tricks for mounting tyres? At the moment I am worried about getting a flat out on the road as they are such a pain to put on. I broke a tyre lever today getting the bead on!
Start the second bead 180 degrees opposite the valve stem. Milk the slack into the channel at the middle of the rim so finishing with your thumbs is manageable.

Kapton + technique make the difference between cussing at tools and hand-mounting tires on tight tire + rim combinations (Continentals on Kinlin XR300s and powder coated Velocity Fusions which were even tighter.)

djb 12-04-17 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by davidad (Post 20032257)
I bet that's fun to do in the rain or cold. I don't buy Marathons because of that, even though they last longest.

I agree, it would be frustrating as anything.

The time I helped a friend with a ridiculously hard to get off and on tire, it was a conti travel something or tour something, and with my friends rim, this combo was waaay harder than any of the various marathons that I have used and put on our families bikes--so just because its a "marathon" of whatever flavour, I find them to no diff than most other tires.

for me the takeaway from the vid is the technique of "pushing the tire inwards, thruoughout the wheel" to gain a few precious mm's at the end that makes it doable.

Barchettaman 12-04-17 01:34 PM

Again, thanks for the hints and tips. I'll be getting one of those bead tools.

The wheels are branded Giant P-R2, and are brand new, obviously standard equipment and have been taken off a Giant road bike where the owner has upgraded. Maybe one of the lower-end Propels or something.

They're pretty similar to Mavic Aksiums. Maybe a little heavier. I paid £50 ($72) for the wheels with nice lightweight skewers, which I think was OK.


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