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Rear wheel hub

Old 12-09-17, 08:16 PM
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Rear wheel hub

Hello everyone, Please bear with me as I'm not well versed in cycling terms nor the right terminology in describing parts, but I'll do my best. I have an old Huffy twelve speed that was my Dad's who just recently passed away and it was the bike he rode when we would ride together so it has a lot of sentimental value to me. I decided to put it on the bike trainer I have, but when I did the rear wheel didn't seem to spin very well. I don't know what possessed me (especially since I know nothing about these things) but I took the rear wheel off and took the nuts off that hold it on the axle. After taking those nuts off there was a cone shaped piece and when I got that off, the one end that held the bearings in was extremely deformed and had ragged edges on what looked to be a bearing chase? the bearings then fell out. I counted 18 bearings in total. The wheel that I had put on the bike so I could use it on my trainer had a quick release. I guess my question is I will have to replace the entire rear hub and if so how difficult of a job is that? Also do you have any suggestions as to what would cause what I described? Thanks for any help and once again I apologize for not being well versed in this area.
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Old 12-09-17, 09:07 PM
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If there's significant wear/damage to the cones' bearing surfaces then there's a good chance that the hub shell surfaces (the cups) are also worn. Repairing/replacing only half of the damaged rolling surfaces is a good way to end up revisiting the problem soon as the still bad hub shell cups will wreck havoc on the new parts. As example a not uncommon problem is when the shell cups have become work hardened and crack, the cracks follow the ball track.


Replacement cones and balls can run $10 to $20. A basic new wheel might be $30+. You do the math as to what is the better long term solution. Andy
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Old 12-09-17, 09:12 PM
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The hub bearing is comprised of a cup and cone on each side, along with the 9 balls. If the cone is pitted it can be replaced, although compatible parts can sometimes be very difficult to source. Jagged edges on the bearing track do not necessarily indicate a problem, but if either cup is pitted or very unevenly worn the bub needs to be replaced
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Old 12-09-17, 09:25 PM
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Thank you

Hello to both cny-bikeman and Andrew R. Stewart I'd like to thank you both for taking the time to read and reply to my post. If I understand you both correctly if the cone's have jagged edges or pitted it's time for me to buy new replacement parts which is what I'll do. Thanks again
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Old 12-09-17, 09:30 PM
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https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...icle-section-8
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Old 12-09-17, 09:57 PM
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the "ragged edge" on the cone can be from two possible issues...

the most common is that the jam nut on the axle were loose, then the balls began riding on the edge of the cone... hardened cones crack at the thin edge...

the second cause is someone trying to install larger balls thinking they are "better" somehow... i see this mostly on BMX bikes, along with ZERO GREASE in wheel bearings... yes, some people are indeed that stupid and gullible.... truly sad.

your huffy had 9 balls in each side... a good sign that no one attempted installing larger 5/16" balls.... inspect all ther balls with your finger nail, replace any that are rough... replace the damaged cone... put a decent but not too heavy grease in the hub... adjust as per how any number of vids on youtube will show you.... you'll NEED a thin CONE WRENCH to do the task... it should be the 15mm size.... a 13mm CONE WRENCH will allow you to do the front wheels of most bikes too... your local bike shop will have them for sale, or you could source them online... cheap wrenches might work once or three times... a good werench will do hundreds of rebuilds.. Park Tool is the go-to brand for pros, usually. standard mechanics' "thin wrenches" are not thin enough, btw!

rear wheel is 1/4" balls... front is 3/16" balls.... the rear wheel cone is a normal solid axle cone.. the thread rate/size on Quick release axles is DIFFERENT, ok?

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Old 12-09-17, 10:17 PM
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Rear Wheel Hub

Hello maddog34, Thanks for answering my post. You sound like you know what you're talking about and I'm sure that comes from many years working on bikes. Your description of how it got damaged seems to match up with I can see in the hub. Please don't think I'm crazy when I ask if it's possible to just change the rear hub without replacing the entire wheel? Another question I have is while I was watching a Youtube video looking for answers I watched a guy taking the rear sprocket or I guess it's called a cassette and I wondered if it was possible to change the twelve speed to a ten speed cassette? The reason I ask is because looking on ebay for twelve speed hubs is a lesson in futility. If it is possible to just change the rear hub and not the entire wheel is that a major job? I understand that you would have to take off all the spokes and then re-install them on a new hub, but you would also have to "true" the rear wheel(that's a new word I picked up on Youtube). Thanks for any advice you may have!!
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Old 12-09-17, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpio012 View Post
Hello maddog34, Thanks for answering my post. You sound like you know what you're talking about and I'm sure that comes from many years working on bikes. Your description of how it got damaged seems to match up with I can see in the hub. Please don't think I'm crazy when I ask if it's possible to just change the rear hub without replacing the entire wheel? Only if the hub flange is the same diameter. Another question I have is while I was watching a Youtube video looking for answers I watched a guy taking the rear sprocket or I guess it's called a cassette and I wondered if it was possible to change the twelve speed to a ten speed cassette? No you have a 6 speed freeWHEEL, not a freeHUB. besides the fact 6 speed is 126mm spaced and 10 is 130mm.The reason I ask is because looking on ebay for twelve speed hubs is a lesson in futility. You need to look for 6 speed not 12 If it is possible to just change the rear hub and not the entire wheel is that a major job?An old Huffy is probably a steel rim and quite possibly a 26" rim, both good reason to replace I understand that you would have to take off all the spokes and then re-install them on a new hub, but you would also have to "true" the rear wheel(that's a new word I picked up on Youtube). Thanks for any advice you may have!!
The things you need to know to replace the wheel.
Size (diameter) is it a 26" (erto 590, 597) 27" (erto 630) or 700c ( erto 622)
Hub spacing 126mm (most likely) 130mm newer road, 135 mountain/hybrid

If you have a bicycle co-op nearby they may likely have what you need cheap.

Another good online resource
MY "TEN SPEEDS - Home Page

Last edited by dedhed; 12-10-17 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 12-10-17, 01:51 AM
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Finding replacement cones is tough. How do the cups look? This would be the bearing surface of the hub shell.

Replacing the hub would involve finding a hub with nearly identical dimensions, delacing the wheel, and rebuilding it. This is a lot of work, requires tooling, and some skill. This just isn't time or cost effective.

Basically, if you can find replacement cones that are dimensionally identical replacements, it could be worth overhauling the hub. Otherwise, just buy a new wheel.
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Old 12-10-17, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpio012 View Post
If I understand you both correctly if the cone's have jagged edges or pitted it's time for me to buy new replacement parts which is what I'll do.
First, "jagged edges" is not clear. Sometimes the bearing track can be jagged without there being damage to the center. The bearing track should be smooth in the center, with no pits (very small holes) and of a fairly even width. If that is true on cup and cone then you're OK.

Again, if the cups are damaged you will need to replace the entire wheel, not just parts. If only the cups are damaged, then they can be replaced.

If the hub can be overhauled you will need proper tools to do so. A freewheel tool (and vise or very long wrench) is required to remove the freewheel, or have a bike shop pop it off for a few bucks. Then you need at least one cone wrench, typically 15mm. Finally you need to follow proper procedures to overhaul and adjust the hub.
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Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!

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Old 12-10-17, 11:00 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by scorpio012 View Post
Hello maddog34, Thanks for answering my post. You sound like you know what you're talking about and I'm sure that comes from many years working on bikes. Your description of how it got damaged seems to match up with I can see in the hub. Please don't think I'm crazy when I ask if it's possible to just change the rear hub without replacing the entire wheel? Another question I have is while I was watching a Youtube video looking for answers I watched a guy taking the rear sprocket or I guess it's called a cassette and I wondered if it was possible to change the twelve speed to a ten speed cassette? The reason I ask is because looking on ebay for twelve speed hubs is a lesson in futility. If it is possible to just change the rear hub and not the entire wheel is that a major job? I understand that you would have to take off all the spokes and then re-install them on a new hub, but you would also have to "true" the rear wheel(that's a new word I picked up on Youtube). Thanks for any advice you may have!!
what your bike has is a "6 speed freewheel" like this one... there are LOADS of them on EBay, btw... https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-MF-...QAAOSw1LRZryIU

you will find that ANY decent bike shop will have new cones for your SOLID AXLE rear wheel... if the CUPS inside the hub clean up ok, then just replace the damaged cone(s) and ball bearings with new pieces.

and finding a usable rear wheel of identical design might be as easy as finding a Huffy of similar design on Craigslist or wherever, then buying it for their usual sale price of 25 to 50 dollars, and salvaging it's rear wheel.

i scrap about twenty of that type of bike every year... people will GIVE THEM AWAY FREE, usually.

oh, and that Huffy probably has a steel rear hub.... the CUPS are not to be removed, and may in fact be a permanent part of the entire hub.... if you try to remove them, they WILL BE RUINED.
clean the hub up, and look at the bearing cups... if smooth, reuse the wheel... if the cups are rusted/pitted, replace the wheel with another similar wheel.

Last edited by maddog34; 12-10-17 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-10-17, 11:46 AM
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Taking photos of hub and its components may help in answering some your questions.
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Old 12-10-17, 01:53 PM
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Hi maddog34, Dear maddog34, I need to apologize to you for misleading you about the rear
wheel I've been talking about. Let me explain, before I acquired my Dad's
bike I had two ten speed older model Schwinn's one of which was basically
laying around and I had taken a few parts off of it but it wasn't of any use
to me. The other Schwinn I was using I put on my bike trainer during the
winter months and in order to put it on the trainer I needed to buy a new
wheel with a quick release skewer. I bought one from the only bike shop we
have in 75 miles and which just went out of business. It was a Weinmann(I
think that's how you spell it) and it was a 700cc. So when I got my Dad's
bike and decided to put it on the trainer, I took the wheel that I bought
and put it on my Dad's bike and that's the wheel that has basically
disintegrated. The twelve speed wheel that I took off my Dad's bike before
putting on the 700cc wheel wasn't in that great of shape either it when you
spun it it felt like something was grinding inside. Now after reading your
response below I took your advice and followed the link you had given me and
bought the Shimano for I think was twelve bucks, but that still doesn't
solve the problem of the 700cc hub being disintegrated so if I'm right, I
will also have to buy a new wheel that can match up to the Shimano free
wheel I just bought on E-bay. Please tell me if what I've explained is
correct? I know that I haven't explained things very well but I hope you
can understand what I've said here? I can't thank you enough for your
expertise and patience in answering some of my elementary questions about
bikes. I look forward to hearing from you. Take care
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Old 12-10-17, 06:35 PM
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determine what size (diameter and width) rim is needed to correctly fit the frame... the "shimano freewheel" will fit almost any freewheel type hub except for some very rare old european types.

Hint: what size tire/wheel is on the FRONT of the bike, and does it mate up well with the brakes?

oh... and that "Weinmann" wheel? that's the rim... Weinmann never built hubs, that i know of...

one more thing... stop calling the wheels "twelve speed" and "ten speed", ok? reason being this: "ten speed" can be confused with a modern 10 speed cassette type hub too easily... and "12 speed" can be confused with a very expensive mountain bike hub/cassette setup... your wheel is a 5/6/7 speed freewheel type hub, but a 7 speed cassette wil most likely not fit the frame... the frame is probably 126mm between the DROPOUTS (brackets the wheels fit up to)... on WHEELS, that dimension is referred to "Outside Locknut Dimension, O.L.D. for short, front hubs are ALMOST ALWAYS 100MM O.L.D.
REAR wheels can be 120, 126, 130, 135, OR 142MM, ok?

so... post the FRONT tire's size, then post the O.L.D. width of the rear dropouts(measured inside to inside where the rear axle mounts)...

and post some pictures if you can, ok? it will help tremendously.

Last edited by maddog34; 12-10-17 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 12-10-17, 11:15 PM
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Rear Wheel Hub

Hello maddog34, First I'd like to thank you for your patience and correcting me with the proper terminology. The front wheel is 27" x 1 1/4". I measured the O.L.D. as you said and it measured 5" or 127mm. Looking at the front wheel it looks like it mates well with the brakes, but I'm not sure if there is something more definitive that you would want me to look at? You were spot on with the front wheel size of 100mm. You're absolutely right about Weinmann not making hubs. I wasn't aware of the conflict with me referring to "twelve speeds and ten speeds" thanks for the correction. As far as providing you with some pictures that will have to wait until tomorrow, 12/11, when I can borrow someone's smart phone. I'm still in the dark ages with my trusty flip phone and the pictures it takes would probably only confuse you more than I have already! Thanks again.
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Old 12-12-17, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34 View Post
determine what size (diameter and width) rim is needed to correctly fit the frame... the "shimano freewheel" will fit almost any freewheel type hub except for some very rare old european types.

Hint: what size tire/wheel is on the FRONT of the bike, and does it mate up well with the brakes?

oh... and that "Weinmann" wheel? that's the rim... Weinmann never built hubs, that i know of...

one more thing... stop calling the wheels "twelve speed" and "ten speed", ok? reason being this: "ten speed" can be confused with a modern 10 speed cassette type hub too easily... and "12 speed" can be confused with a very expensive mountain bike hub/cassette setup... your wheel is a 5/6/7 speed freewheel type hub, but a 7 speed cassette wil most likely not fit the frame... the frame is probably 126mm between the DROPOUTS (brackets the wheels fit up to)... on WHEELS, that dimension is referred to "Outside Locknut Dimension, O.L.D. for short, front hubs are ALMOST ALWAYS 100MM O.L.D.
REAR wheels can be 120, 126, 130, 135, OR 142MM, ok?



so... post the FRONT tire's size, then post the O.L.D. width of the rear dropouts(measured inside to inside where the rear axle mounts)...

and post some pictures if you can, ok? it will help tremendously.

maddog34, I apologize, but I haven't been able to find someone with a smart phone who could take pictures of the bike that you asked for at least not yet. I'm not sure if you were waiting on those pictures before you made any further comments about my situation? Of if you've decided that you have provided all the help and advice that you plan on giving I understand. Thank you for all the help you provided. Take care
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Old 12-12-17, 08:28 PM
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27"... old school road bike size.... weinmann rims... old peugeot wheel possibly... and a lot of other bikes!

there's a strong chance that you can find a decent rear wheel for FREE, if you look around in the right places... watch your local Craigslist free section for an old road bike.

the rear of the frame is 126mm, or should be... a mm or two of flex either way is very common.
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Old 12-13-17, 01:35 PM
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Rear Wheel Hub

Thank you maddog34 for your help. I did look on Craigslist but in my area it seems that mountain bikes are the usual find on that website. One last question for you is if I'm not lucky enough to find a road bike rim on Craigslist and I'm forced to buy a Weinmann rim will I have any trouble in finding one of their rims to match up with the shimano freewheel part I bought off of e-bay? Thanks and Take Care.
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Old 12-14-17, 11:05 AM
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New question, but related

Iíve just taken my rear hub apart at the fix-your-own session, with some guidance from mechanics at the shop. I wanted to replace the rough-engaging freehub body and also repack the hub with fresh grease and bearings.

I was pleased to find a used freehub body that fit my 10-speed cassette, though I did notice dust cap inside the wheel side of the freehub body was closer to the outside than mine. What worries me slightly, and I hoped someone could clarify, is that my original freehub body had 9 1/4Ē ball bearings on each side, whereas the replacement one would only fit 8.

According to this post
(Scroll down to point 4), Shimano clone hubs use 7/32Ē bearings on the drive side, which it seems would explain why I couldnít fit all 9 into the new setup. Will this damage my cones, freehub or bearings, to have 8x1/4 bearings instead of 9x7/32, as I suspect this freehub had before?

The wheel feels OK at the moment, but I havenít used it extensively yet. Thank you.

Originally Posted by maddog34 View Post
the "ragged edge" on the cone can be from two possible issues...

the most common is that the jam nut on the axle were loose, then the balls began riding on the edge of the cone... hardened cones crack at the thin edge...

the second cause is someone trying to install larger balls thinking they are "better" somehow... i see this mostly on BMX bikes, along with ZERO GREASE in wheel bearings... yes, some people are indeed that stupid and gullible.... truly sad.

your huffy had 9 balls in each side... a good sign that no one attempted installing larger 5/16" balls.... inspect all ther balls with your finger nail, replace any that are rough... replace the damaged cone... put a decent but not too heavy grease in the hub... adjust as per how any number of vids on youtube will show you.... you'll NEED a thin CONE WRENCH to do the task... it should be the 15mm size.... a 13mm CONE WRENCH will allow you to do the front wheels of most bikes too... your local bike shop will have them for sale, or you could source them online... cheap wrenches might work once or three times... a good werench will do hundreds of rebuilds.. Park Tool is the go-to brand for pros, usually. standard mechanics' "thin wrenches" are not thin enough, btw!

rear wheel is 1/4" balls... front is 3/16" balls.... the rear wheel cone is a normal solid axle cone.. the thread rate/size on Quick release axles is DIFFERENT, ok?
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Old 12-14-17, 11:34 AM
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Matching rim and freewheel?

Originally Posted by scorpio012 View Post
Thank you maddog34 for your help. I did look on Craigslist but in my area it seems that mountain bikes are the usual find on that website. One last question for you is if I'm not lucky enough to find a road bike rim on Craigslist and I'm forced to buy a Weinmann rim will I have any trouble in finding one of their rims to match up with the shimano freewheel part I bought off of e-bay? Thanks and Take Care.
Hi, Iím not sure Iíve got the picture clearly, but it sounds as if youíre thinking about building a freewheel into a hub. This is probably acknowledged as one of the most advanced jobs in bike maintenanceóyou can sign up for classes on wheel building, but I donít know anything about it. You might instead search on eBay for a wheel in the right size with the right number of gears and/or set up a saved search if nothing turns up. Maybe Iíve misunderstood, though.
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Old 12-14-17, 12:09 PM
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RIM: the part the tire beads up on.

WHEEL: the completed assembly of spokes, hub, and rim.

and that freewheel you bought will mate up to ANY freewheel threaded hub that isn't old school french, bmx specific, or old italian design... with a handful of exceptions.
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Old 12-14-17, 12:25 PM
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"According to this post
"(Scroll down to point 4), Shimano clone hubs use 7/32” bearings on the drive side, which it seems would explain why I couldn’t fit all 9 into the new setup. Will this damage my cones, freehub or bearings, to have 8x1/4 bearings instead of 9x7/32, as I suspect this freehub had before?

The wheel feels OK at the moment, but I haven’t used it extensively yet. Thank you." "

a "shimano clone" of what? a Campy freehub hub assy?

never seen one... and glad of that fact.

i've ran into a few rear hubs that used odd bearing sizes... replace what was in the hub when you tore it down... or did you toss them before measuring them? like pulling all the plug wires off a V8, instead of swapping them one at a time... find info, then good luck.

Last edited by maddog34; 12-14-17 at 12:33 PM.
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