Tmchck86

Hi all! I have a 2015 Specialized AWOL. I bought the bike for touring, and wanted a lower gear, so I decided to change out the crankset, and got a SRAM X5 44-33-22t. Unfortunately, after installation, the shop realized that the stock Sora front derailleur wouldn’t work because its capacity was only 20. The shop offered to put on a Shimano Altus derailleur instead, and I, not knowing the difference, agreed.
Riding the bike with this setup is completely fine on relatively flat ground, and mostly fine when I’m not loaded up with 50lbs of gear, but I unfortunately discovered in rural NY on a stretch of the Northern Tier that I frequently can’t get into the smallest front gear when I’m climbing with a load. I had a few bike shops make adjustments, only to have it fail again on the next climb. The last shop told me flat out that it was just a bad derailleur, and that it couldn’t be expected to work under a load.

A few questions for you smart folks:
1) Can anyone provide an explanation of why it is harder to shift while climbing with a loaded bike? I’m trying to make some intuitive sense out of it, but failing.
2) I’m in grad school, and on a bit of a budget, so I’m wondering if there is a relatively cheap way to fix the problem. Can I just replace the derailleur? Suggestions? Do I need to change the Sora shifters as well?
3) Never mind the cheapest option – if this was your bike, what would you do for it to give you reliable shifting on a tour?

Feedback is greatly appreciated. Please let me know if I can provide any other info that makes your responses easier.

Eggman84

You need to learn to anticipate the having to shift to a lower gear and then shift sooner (shift before you have lost all momentum on that hill). What you are experiencing is the chain not being able to disengage from the middle chain ring because you are placing a large load on it. Others can probably explain it better but even chain rings with ramps and pins can be hard to shift if you are placing a large load on the chain; try easing off for a revolution as you shift.

Good luck.

headasunder

Interesting post and questions, first thing I would say is I am surprised the sora fd didnt work out the second would be that the atlus is an mtb derailleur which are technically not compatible with road shifters due to different pull ratios(have never tried so can't comment from experience). I run a tiagra triple on my tourer but it has a standard triple on the front 52/39/30. Maybe post in the touring forum as plenty of folk opt for a smaller granny with no issues.

Tmchck86

This is absolutely true. I certainly did get better over the 900 miles that I rode on this tour, but even if I got it right 98% of the time, those few mistakes could be a real pain. Just hoping there is some mechanical fix to make it a bit easier.

alcjphil

When you shift a front derailleur you are shifting the top run of the chain which is under tension when you are pedalling. If you are pedalling hard the chain is very hard to derail from one ring to another. By contrast, rear derailleurs shift the lower run of the chain which is under very little tension and will shift easily to a higher or lower cog. A front derailleur shift should only be attempted when you can ease off the pedals for a second or two

hermanchauw

Is your Sora fd for double or triple?

If it is double, it may not have the range of motion for triple.

If it is triple, it should be because the cage shape is optimized for bigger road chainrings.

The simplest, ie most guaranteed to work is change the fd and front shifter to mountain ones. Any one will do. Altus is good enough.

shelbyfv

If it shifts OK on the flats, it's not a component issue. Select your chainring before you start the climb.

JonathanGennick 

I looked up the specs of your bike, and I see what your first shop was getting at. I believe they are correct. I bet the chain in your new, 22-tooth ring didn't clear the derailleur cage because the Sora cage is shaped for larger rings. Hence the change to Altus.

The other shops you have visited have probably tried all the adjustments that I could think of.

That leaves trying a higher level derailleur. It's possible that a stronger spring and stiffer cage might help somewhat. You would just need to try and see, and the money spent would be an experiment.

I used to wonder why the front derailleur was harder to shift under load than the rear. It's because the front derailleur is fighting the tension in the chain. The front derailleur is pushing sideways on the part of the chain that you are pressing forward on, and your forward pressure is way greater than the little derailleur spring can cope with.

When approaching a hill I will often shift down on the front and up a couple of times on the back. That gets me into a smaller ring ahead of time while still maintaining more or less my pedaling resistance. Then it's easier to downshift the rear while actually going up the hill.

p.s. Today I learned that the Northern Tier is actually the southernmost tier.

andrewclaus

I agree it's likely a spring/cage quality issue. When downshifting the front, you're depending on spring pressure alone to shift against the tension in the chain. When the chain is under load, that tension is too great for the spring in the new derailleur.

Since other people have looked at it, I assume it's safe to rule out a problem with friction in the cable or housing which could have been introduced when the new mech was installed.

pdlamb

I don't think anybody has said that the front derailer shifts down based on spring pressure. The rear derailer shifts to a lower gear with cable pressure. You don't want a real strong spring on the front derailer because it'd be hard to shift into the big ring, while you can whale away with cable pressure on the rear.

Tmchck86

It was a triple. So switching to a mountain shifter might help more than getting a different fd?

I'd appreciate any suggestions that the group has about a compatable higher quality derailleur/shifter. It seems that Shimano doesn't offer many options for 9-speeds. I definitely can get better at shifting before hills, but I wouldn't really call some of the grades "hills" that started giving me trouble when I was fully loaded. It's no fun "climbing" a ~2% grade, seeing the road ahead slope up, realize that I needed my smallest gear, and then be unable to get to it.

JonathanGennick 

I may have been wrong earlier in suggesting a Deore derailleur. The Sheldon Brown site says that cable pull is not the same between Shimano's road and mountain derailleurs. Mae Culpa on my part.

I did though, run across this thread while googling the question:

Options for Lowering the Gearing on a Stock Specialized AWOL

The OP is not the first to want to lower the gearing on the AWOL.

fietsbob

NO.. (+1) get into the granny gear early, shift to a gear in the middle of the rear cluster, the down shift there It still helps

to get a little momentum , to un load chain tension, momentarily, when forcing the chain sideways..

Forcing shifts under a load, It's how people break chains..

I have decades of touring history, (6 by 3) friction shifting.. read the terrain ahead and anticipate ..

NB;If you cannot get it to shift, going up hill , cross the road, head down, get the gear you wanted, then turn around again.

In conclusion, it's the the weight. see all of the above..



....

L134 

Have you considered going friction up front? That might help. I am using a Shimano FD-6508 (I think it is an older Ultegra 9 speed front derailleur) on my tandem (usually more problematic on dropping to a granny than a single) in friction mode and it does the job well. Don’t know if it will sit low enough for your setup though. Also, maybe try a reverse pull (cable pull pulls the cage in instead of out) front derailleur. I have no idea if any such animal exists in the indexed world but they did in the friction world and could be quite effective.

Tmchck86

I'm open to the idea of going to friction up front. The reverse pull front derailleur is also an interesting option. Found an old thread with people discussing reverse pull fixing a similar problem.

grizzly59

Your AWOL looks like a fun bike.

1) Like everyone has been saying, ease off the pedal pressure when you shift the front mech. Anticipate and double shift.

2) I would add, clean and silicone grease the cables where they're inside the housings. Shift the front onto the big ring, then work the shifter to the small, but don't turn the pedals. That will put slack in the cable. Pull an end of a one of the housings out of the frame. Now you can slide the housings around and clean and grease the cable where it will be in the housing when it's all put back together.

3) Clean and oil the front mech. Your's is new, so it's already shiny and clean.

4) Friction shift the front mech. I never did understand index shifting a front triple.

Kontact 

If the Sora FD has a 20t capacity, and the crankset is 44-33-22, what's the problem? 44 - 22 = 20.


Was it actually the other Sora triple with on a 16t capacity?

maddog34

50/39/30 is about usual stock setup on that touring bike... many opt for lower overall ratios... and shop might have swapped the 44 setup onto the bike.

the tail of the der. cage then is farther away from the rings, introducing more chain flex into the mix.......

has the condition/type of chain been addressed yet? a slopped out chain will like staying put on a sprocket, especially under load, eh? worn chains hate shifting... Touring bike............
Chain flex.

and i'd probably use friction levers too, but i don't like having to reach for them so deliberately(mtb) ,,, same reason i like the friction bar-end shifters on my road bikes... except my CF Fuji road ripper....

there's an idea... a thumb operated, UNDER the handlebar friction shifter! Make it two stages to reduce force needed... hmmmmmmm....

Shimano MTB FRONT der. will not play well with the Sora Road shifter.... REAR MTB Der. will work with the Sora right side rear shifter, though.......

ummm... is the ... MIDDLE CHAIN RING shot, by chance??? hooking the chain, especially under high loads.....

Kontact 

The OP said where the new crank came from.

PDKL45

OP: the left lever on your bike is designed for a road deraileur, not a mountain bike derailleur like the Altus. The amount of cable that it pulls to change the positon of the Altus derailleur is incorrect; you will likely never get proper shifts with that derailleur.

Try to find a single bar end shifter. Microshift make 3x9 bar end shifters for MTB components; you could try to find one for indexed front shifting. Otherwise ask a bike shop mechanic if he has an old bar end shifter that he can set up to change the Altus shifter in friction mode.

Tmchck86

It is a fun bike! I can definitely try cleaning as you've mentioned. Not sure that it's in terrible shape, but couldn't hurt.

44-22=22, right?

Good checks on the chain/chain ring condition, but they are still in good shape. This discussion is going to end up with me at my LBS anyway, so I'll have them triple check. Just trying to get smart on the issue first because it seems like several shops missed it the first time around.

Thanks! I'll look into Microshift and friction options.

cny-bikeman

Most people avoid the large-large combo, but if you should get stuck again and have the large cog available in the rear, you can shift to it temporarily in order to get enough momentum to shift to the small chainwheel.

pdlamb

Just curious; is your day job in political economics?

Kontact 

Nope. 44 just seems like 42 late enough at night. My bad.


There is a derailleur out there that will work. Either a 9 speed era Shimano MTB or the Altus that is installed or a Microshift or a used Suntour MTB.

Does the Altus index and trim to the correct locations? If so, it isn't the problem. At that point it is either the derailleur adjustment or an x factor like chain wear or something.

Tmchck86

I know that there has been significant discussion in this thread, and many people think that I'm just shifting incorrectly. I aknowledge that this is a possiblity, although I really think I'm doing the things advised by everyone. Let's say for the sake of discussion, that a new derailleur could give me some marginal improvement in shifting ability. I'll confirm any derailleur/shifter purchase with a LBS, but I'd appreciate if anyone has thoughts on either of these two options: 3X9 Shimano XT or 3X9 Shimano Deore. Unfortunately I can't post links because I don't have enough posts yet.

Thanks for all the time everyone has taken to help me.