The Thin Man 

Hi Everyone,

Two part post here:

1. Are you using a different fork race setter other than the defacto shop standard Park crown race setter (CRS-1)? If so, what? Why? The EVT Slider Crown Race gets amazing reviews from friends but comes at an incredibly premium price.
2. When you use your race setting system, where is your fork positioned as you set the race?

Using the CRS-1 in the shop, all mechanic friends say to grasp fork, placing front dropout on something soft such as a foam standing pad, then smack the race on. Doesn't this seem sorta barbaric and perhaps even accuracy compromised? I get you are tapping the fork gently but there just seems to be a more professional way to do this.

Perhaps some of you are doing this differently? What about some kind of bike block fork mount that is vise moutable to secure the fork? Or is this already an item that I'm not privy to?

Thoughts on this topic are greatly appreciated!

fietsbob

EVT is a local company to PDX'ers...


If you have a pipe of something like copper , longer than your steerer tube and just a little bigger than the steer tube..


have someone hold it up , and bang the upside down fork and the crown race down on it.. if its too easy the crown race is too big ..

you need an interference fit ..

the copper will be softer than the steel crown race.. do you own a 'Dead Blow' mallet?



alternate : a hydraulic jack makes a great Arbor press force ,

then you are slowly pushing it on with a steadily increasing rate of force, rather than banging with hammer strike blows ..


Machine shops use arbor presses on bearing installations..











....

The Thin Man 

Hello. Yes, I'm aware of that. It still doesn't change the price of the tool to be much, much more than the Park tool costs. For a serious home mechanic, I still can't justify the EVT cost. But, that's why I'm asking what others use and their techniques.

nfmisso

Support the fork on block of wood, directly under the crown, use a copper pipe the slips of the steerer tube, press with a pipe clamp that goes under the block of wood. Make sure the pipe clamp threads are well lubricated.

Banging away (or even tapping) is not good, a smooth press is desired. If you have a large drill press, that is better than a pipe clamp.

Kontact 

I use a length of copper tubing, and I always seat the race in my hands without the dropouts touching anything. The mass of the fork is sufficient to resist the impact force of the tube. And that's the same technique I have always used and taught as a bike shop service manager when using a factory crown race setter.

There is no reason to potentially damage the dropouts, blades or crown by placing the fork against anything. Do it in the air.

fietsbob

Find a bike Co Op..

PSU should have one , then you don't have to buy the tools just rent shop time ..

Eugene has 2, an off campus non profit Org one, and the one on the UofO campus, student union building, outdoor program.

FBinNY 

Too much overkill in terms of pricey tools.

My method, which I've used for half a century.

I use a length of water pipe, cut and faced. Because of a sloppy fit, I use an old crown race, or lower head cup to ensure a square fit and ensure that the race area isn't touched. To protect the fork, I don't set it against a bench, but instead hold both the fork and slide hammer in my hands and bring them together, letting the mutual inertia do the job that a dolly would otherwise.

maddog34

if the dropouts MIGHT be damaged by tapping a crown race in place, then the fork is unsafe to ride.

seriously... a rider weighs more than any hammer you can swing... and a pothole crossing will exert WAY more force on the dropouts than a standard hammer will while tapping the race into place.

tap the race into place... and be glad to know that IF the dropouts will be damaged by such a ridiculously low force, they will fail on the bench, not the road.

geez, people.... Really? WAKE UP.

protect the finish, but the forces in play when installing a crown race onto the steerer are FAR BELOW failure stress levels of a fork...

and placing the dropouts on a rubber floor mat will INCREASE the amount of impacts required to install the race, nothing more.

fork steerers and stanchion tubes fail from shear and bending loads, not compression loads... dropouts are placed under compression loads during use... every single skyscraper in the world would fail if your collective concerns were warranted.

any reports of busted fork dropouts from tapping a race on?

NO.

The Thin Man 

Great suggestions everyone. The "air technique" sounds logical to me.
@nfmisso, if you have images of clamp technique, I'd love to see it visually.
@fietsbob, Funny you mention the PSU bike hub as I was a mechanic there years ago where I go to borrow tools like this. But, I'd like to be self-sufficient. Great suggestions though. Thank you.

maddog34

City Bikes lets folks use tools, in-shop. 20th and Ankeny, SE.

want to avoid damage to the finish of the dropouts? support the underside of the CROWN.
2x4 board in a bench vise... add a rag to separate paint and wood.
Done.

maddog34

here's a good way to assemble races onto forks... heat the race to 275 in an oven... chill the fork in a freezer... the race will DROP RIGHT ONTO THE FORK.

no, 275 degrees will not effect the heat treated race one tiny bit.

if putting the fork in a freezer spooks you, then never ride your bike in the winter ever again.

Kontact 

None of which is an argument for placing any part of the fork against a hard surface to do something as simply as get the race on.

Doing it freehand also helps insure the tool moves easily on the steerer and does no harm to the carbon. Holding it in hand allows the parts to align naturally.

Additionally, having the fork suspended also allows you to more easily hear when the race seats so you don't keep banging on it.


Regardless of any sort of critical need to avoid finish damage to the dropouts or fork, setting the race in the air is the correct method used by professionals. Any other method is simply more complicated and inefficient.

Kontact 

So you want to damage the crown paint instead of simply doing it correctly?

Kontact 

This may work, but it doesn't insure that the race is fully seated as it cools. So you're still going to need to strike it after it cools.

wschruba

Other than the bit about carbon, I agree with you. Few composite forks are still made that require a pressed race. Most have a centering cone built in.

Other than that, yes. If you can't accomplish setting a race home in the air, there's a problem.

For those who are not as imaginative as FBinNY, Hozan sells a slide-hammer style setting tool that takes up little to no space compared to other specialty tools.

Mounttesa

I gave up and split the crown race. Cartridge bearings though.

maddog34

Hey, Kontact ... how's the above procedure going to effect the fork?

maddog34

ever considered a light seating tap while the heat differential still exists between the parts considered?

maddog34

"Doing it freehand also helps insure the tool moves easily on the steerer and does no harm to the carbon. Holding it in hand allows the parts to align naturally."

HOO BOY.... no... JUST... NO.

the fork and race would move around in whatever vector you impart during impact movements.

Have you ever even done a crown race install?

Kontact 

In my experience, at least half the road bikes that need a race set have carbon steerers. Including the brand new Seven I assembled last year.

It really comes down to what bikes are getting new headsets installed, and it is generally not the production bikes with raceless steerers but custom bikes and older models getting upgraded forks. No Madone owners are replacing their forks with Enves or upgrading their headsets. There are a ton of 1 1/8" high end road bikes out there.

TimothyH

I'm all for the right tool for the job but a crown race isn't rocket science and a PVC pipe with a dremel chamfered edge works fine.




Put a PVC pipe cap on the end and rap the PVC on the garage floor. The crown race should go on with light to moderate force. If the race fails to seat or requires lots of pounding then stop because something is wrong - incorrect race or poorly made, out of spec fork or similar.




If the race fails to seat then then something is wrong - wrong size race or poorly made, out of spec fork or similar.


-Tim-

Kontact 

No, because it may or may not move as it continues to cool. The point is to seat the race when it is tight enough to stay where it is set.


As I've explained to you before, I have been working on and off as a mechanic and service manager since 1990. The first time I set a crown race it was the correct way, because I received training.

You, on the other hand, are a relatively uneducated shade tree mechanic that has tried to mount Schwinn 26 1 3/8 tires on MTB rims, was confused by "rare" Uniglide cassettes and couldn't figure out on your own how to assemble the pulleys on an Ultegra derailleur. You seem to have little ability to use the internet to look up information or figure out things on your own. So here's a gift: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/


And yes, when you place the dropouts on a flat surface and fail to hammer at an angle perfectly perpendicular to that surface you stand a much greater chance of seating the race asymmetrically. When you do it the correct way the fork pivots in the hand to self align with the force of the blow. This is true whether you are using a slide hammer or Park type race setter.


May I suggest that if you continue to rage against those of us who do this for a living you are just going to look foolish, rather than discredit anyone who doesn't think you need a wood block, towels, a vice, bench and helper to perform a 10 second crown race set.


In fact, if you were able to just shut up and read about the way other people get things done, you might actually learn something yourself and get better at your hobby.

Kontact 

You are likely to have lower bearing play or be unable to get a reasonable adjustment since you are allowing the lower race to have a larger effective diameter than it should.

xenologer

I use a slide hammer and hold the fork in the air. not resting the dropouts on anything.
Dunno the brand on the tool, very old
its double ended, one side for seating, the other with adjustable jaws for race pulling.


Found it, maybe:

JonathanGennick 

I use essentially the method TimothyH shows in his photos: Turn everything upside down and gently rap the fork slide-hammer first onto the floor. A few taps, and job done. Helps to have a cement floor.