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I'm an eight speed girl.

Old 01-30-18, 09:34 AM
  #1  
cajunpedaler
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I'm an eight speed girl.

I have a steel frame. The frame size is small..(like maybe 17"). The rear dropouts are 126mm. I would like to convert to 135mm. I have done this procedure many times, coldsetting...using a threaded bar and widening the distance that I unscrew).
Maybe because this frame is smaller (therefore, the shorter lengths have less forgiveness)..I cannot get it to go beyond the 126. I can screw my nuts out to 160 or beyond and leave it a couple of weeks..and when I release...it goes sproing!! Back to 126mm. I am hesitant to use the 2x4 method..I have visions of that going horribly wrong..going too far, bending, kinking chain stays..ouch!!

So..because I really like 8 speed...Right now, my axle is 135mm. Is it possible to rebuild a wheel and make a 126mm axle work on a 8 speed? It looks like I can use a different spacer to reduce the distance? And then a shorter axle, too..
Will I have to rebuild, and relish the wheel? (I am a well intentioned amateur wheel builder)

Thanks.
Will spring ever get here?
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Old 01-30-18, 09:59 AM
  #2  
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First, stretching the frame insufficiently to wind up at your desired width isn't helped by letting it sit for a couple of weeks. Metals don't "relax" so if it isn't the right width right away, it won't ever be.

Second, you don't need 135 mm dropouts to take an 8/9/10-speed rear wheel. Most 8+ speed road bikes use 130 mm hubs and getting a 130 mm hub into 126 mm dropouts by hand isn't that difficult. Stretching your frame a couple of mm, say to 128, would make a 130 mm wheel easier to install and shouldn't harm your frame at all.

Last edited by HillRider; 01-30-18 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 01-30-18, 10:04 AM
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Since the RDER is attached to the drop out and the cogs must still be the same distance from it, all your "shortening" has to be on the NDS.
This would result in NDS spokes that will have way too little tension. (the DS spokes won't have enough "angle")

An OC rim would alleviate some of that.
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Old 01-30-18, 10:06 AM
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cajun pedaler, 130mm hubs have been used in 126mm OLD aluminum frames without cold setting for ages now. Comvert your mtn hub to 130mm, re-center the wheel and it's done.

Brad
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Old 01-30-18, 10:10 AM
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135 mm is mountain bike spacing. With a steel road frame, simply pop the 8 speed wheel in the dropout. No need to cold set. I have a couple of 126 mm spaced bikes with 8 speed Campy groups.
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Old 01-30-18, 10:13 AM
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Also try posting this in the "Framebuilders" forum here. https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/ Some of the regulars from there post here too but not all of them.
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Old 01-30-18, 10:32 AM
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8 speed IGH can be narrowed somewhat..
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Old 01-30-18, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cajunpedaler View Post
I have a steel frame. The frame size is small..(like maybe 17"). The rear dropouts are 126mm. I would like to convert to 135mm. I have done this procedure many times, coldsetting...using a threaded bar and widening the distance that I unscrew).
Maybe because this frame is smaller (therefore, the shorter lengths have less forgiveness)..I cannot get it to go beyond the 126. I can screw my nuts out to 160 or beyond and leave it a couple of weeks..and when I release...it goes sproing!! Back to 126mm. I am hesitant to use the 2x4 method..I have visions of that going horribly wrong..going too far, bending, kinking chain stays..ouch!!

So..because I really like 8 speed...Right now, my axle is 135mm. Is it possible to rebuild a wheel and make a 126mm axle work on a 8 speed? It looks like I can use a different spacer to reduce the distance? And then a shorter axle, too..
Will I have to rebuild, and relish the wheel? (I am a well intentioned amateur wheel builder)

Thanks.
Will spring ever get here?
I would not consider cold setting my own frames, but I would never disparage someone for modernizing their drive trains. I am perfectly content with six speed or less. Mostly less. Now the answer to your actual question I think lies in frame alloy. As you know many frames are made with high end alloy in the main tubes with lesser "gas pipe" stays, so easier to cold set. If you have a frame with high end alloy steel throughout, say, better than 531, you might see increased difficulty and risk in modernising your bike frame.
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Old 01-30-18, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cajunpedaler View Post
Maybe because this frame is smaller (therefore, the shorter lengths have less forgiveness)..I cannot get it to go beyond the 126. I can screw my nuts out to 160 or beyond and leave it a couple of weeks..and when I release...it goes sproing!! Back to 126mm.
What steel is yours? CRMO?

I spread a mini velo frame from 130 to 160 and it sprung back to 135. Mine is "steel" ie hiten or hicarb.
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Old 01-30-18, 11:01 AM
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Try using Sheldon Brown's method: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-s...html#spreading


I do not like the threaded rod method because it pits the two sides against each other and the weakest one will move the most. It is also difficult to overbend enough to get the desired dimension. Using SB's method you move them one at a time so can get them even. In theory you should have the dropouts aligned after cold-setting as they will no longer be parallel.
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Old 01-30-18, 11:14 AM
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Spread them to about 140mm and using a rubber faced hammer hit the stays to help fix the new spacing. I would also run a string from each rear dropout and around the head tube to see if the stays are equally spaced. You measure the distance to the seat tube and they should be equal.
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Old 01-30-18, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Seems to me alot of trouble for just 1 more.

Why 8? What is so special about 8 anyway?
I just like 8. I have my reasons, I have my opinions, works for me.
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Old 01-30-18, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Try using Sheldon Brown's method: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-s...html#spreading


I do not like the threaded rod method because it pits the two sides against each other and the weakest one will move the most. It is also difficult to overbend enough to get the desired dimension. Using SB's method you move them one at a time so can get them even. In theory you should have the dropouts aligned after cold-setting as they will no longer be parallel.
i used this method to get to 135 from 126....it was a 23" Nishiki frame ( and for the OP it is a 1 x 8 setup....friction thumb shifter )
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Old 01-30-18, 12:58 PM
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No need to overthink. If you are now at 126, you are good to go with a standard 130 hub.
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Old 01-30-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cajunpedaler View Post
Will spring ever get here?
Yes, Spring will get here
Don't know where you are, but it's been so cold here since forever, it's not even fun to go out to the shop, even with a heater.
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Old 01-30-18, 01:24 PM
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8, 9, and 10 speed Shimano all have essentially the same spacing. 7, and fewer sprockets will take less spacing.

So, if you upgrade to 8, you could just as easily choose 9 or 10, but it is up to you.

Is this a road bike or a MTB? Wheel and tire size?

I run 9s on my old bike with 126mm spacing. If you choose to do that, I'd encourage you to build your own wheels from scratch.

In my case, I started with a 9s hub with 135mm spacing. I removed two spacers from the left side to bring it down to about 126mm and cut the axle shorter. I then built my wheel up with an Off-Center (OC) or Asymmetric rim.

Dishing was steep, but the OC rim made it possible to build the wheel. A few manufacturers make the OC rims including Velocity and DT, at least for road bikes.
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Old 01-30-18, 01:29 PM
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If the goal is 8 speeds, I'd stop at 130. You don't want to break the brake bridge.
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Old 01-30-18, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
If the goal is 8 speeds, I'd stop at 130. You don't want to break the brake bridge.
I always put a bar clamp, padded by two drilled and split wooden blocks, across the brake bridge to keep the strain away from it while cold-setting.
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Old 01-30-18, 03:37 PM
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Sturmey-Archer | X-RF8

Shimano has an 8 speed IGH too.. 2 , actually.. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...le/I6qWzUuvIbg
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Old 01-30-18, 04:41 PM
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because they are all overdrive gears, they are best in small wheel bikes . Brompton's 349 rims are 28 spoke..

so easy to find..
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Old 01-30-18, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
because they are all overdrive gears, they are best in small wheel bikes . Brompton's 349 rims are 28 spoke..

so easy to find..
So you think a 120mm hub for small wheels would solve the OPs issue?
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Old 01-30-18, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cajunpedaler View Post
Is it possible to rebuild a wheel and make a 126mm axle work on a 8 speed? It looks like I can use a different spacer to reduce the distance? And then a shorter axle, too..?
Not something that I'd try to do. The issue is the amount of dish that's required.

I think that the wider free hub body that's required by 8/9/10 cassettes is dished about as far as I'd want to go. At 130 mm dropouts the tension difference between the drive and non-drive side is about as far as I want to go. When manufacturers start making products like off center drilled rims in response to an issue, you know that it's been a problem.

If it was my bike, I think that I'd try to love it for what it is.
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Old 01-30-18, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Not something that I'd try to do. The issue is the amount of dish that's required.

I think that the wider free hub body that's required by 8/9/10 cassettes is dished about as far as I'd want to go. At 130 mm dropouts the tension difference between the drive and non-drive side is about as far as I want to go. When manufacturers start making products like off center drilled rims in response to an issue, you know that it's been a problem.

If it was my bike, I think that I'd try to love it for what it is.
130 freehubs don't normally have different flange locations than 126mm hubs. The cogs just run closer to the DS spokes than than do on 7 speed, and run 2mm further out due to the hub width.
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Old 01-31-18, 09:43 AM
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Well..I’ve had a “duh” moment here.
I will revisit this with a 130mm and see what I come up with.
Where does one find “parts” hub rebuilds?
Thanks.
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Old 01-31-18, 10:20 AM
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Right here for starters
My first stop though is my local CO-OP

https://www.bikeforums.net/want-buy/
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage-sales/
ISO and For Trade thread part 4
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