Do you toe or not toe?
 

Someone posted a video about brake adjustment a few days ago. It spent a fair amount of time explaining how to toe the brake pads.

I've never done it. I aim for flat and square to the rims. And, of course, they wear into matching the rims.

As I understand it, the primary argument for toeing is brake squeal. But, I rarely if ever get squeal with my non-toed brakes.

I have, of course, heard the squeal... better than a bike bell :innocent:

Is it hard pads, and perhaps rim material (steel?) that cause the squeal?

Anyway... who toes, and who doesn't toe?

I buy the Kool Stop pads that have the toe angle built in. That way I can slap them on and they just work.

Yes, I toe in. Long ago, we didn't have spherical washers. We just bent the caliper with an adjustable wrench. That worked fine for Weinmann and MAFAC calipers.

+1

I used to toe in caliper brake pads when the ones I had were fairly cheap and flexy. My current brakes (Dura Ace and Ultegra dp's) and pads (Kool Stop Salmons) are both strong and quiet with the pads aligned parallel to the rims. Current Kool Stop inserts no longer have the ridge on the trailing edge that set the toe angle and they don't need it.

I have had both canti and V-brakes where a fairly severe toe-in was essential to quiet them down.

My Magura HS33 pads need no toe in..

Original Mafac pads you bent the post relative to the rest of the shoe..


When one of the old bike shops in Eugene closed, they had a Bushel basket full of Mafac Brake shoes..





...

never needed to, plus they are tapered outta the plastic encased cardboard wrapper.

I did it sometimes, but really didn't find a difference.

I regularly toe my brake pads. My bikes all have cantilever brakes -- either the traditional center pull or the newer linear pull. There always seems to be at least just a tiny bit of wiggle in the arms on the post mounts, and I've usually found the need to toe the pads (to mitigate noise). I have also come to prefer the soft and progressive feel of toed brake blocks (vs. ones that firmly contact the rim squarely).

Even if they are toed in wouldn't they eventually become parallel to the rim with wear?

Me too.

once flat, they'll make noise under use reminding one to soon conduct some scheduled maintenance before needing to schedule for a hospital visit.

Yes. At that point they may (brake pads and rims both still clean and sticky, and/or caliper has developed more slop) or may not require readjustment.

I only toe-in if the pads are short ones, or if the rim is beat. I'm of the opinion that toeing-in brake pads isn't really necessary on longer pads that are curved to match the rim contour. Many people make the mistake of too much toe, and it will wear unevenly and too quickly in my opinion. Just very shallow angle is all that's needed. Usually brake pads squealing is a combination of dirty rim braking surface and poorly-fitted pads. Old pads, which were rubber, tended to harden up and make noise. My quick fix was to always run some non-woven abrasive pad over the rim braking surface (or steel wool, from back in the day before scotchbrite was available), and to rub the pads on a piece of sandpaper held on a flat surface. This would true the pads quite nicely, and it would be enough to give the brakes some new life.

Two business card's worth, generally.

One of my bikes has brake squeal on humid days. I tried toeing the pads, less noise but still not silent. Thought about bevelling front and rear pad ends, like on drum brake liners BITD.

Ditto the Kool Stop Eagle 2 cantilever pads. Easy.

I do toe in the standard pads on my comfort hybrid V-brakes.

So far my old road bike's side pull brakes haven't needed toe in.

Jobst Brandt figured that brake pads should eventually become toed-in with wear. Consider that if the brake pad starts out perfectly flat to the rim, and the calipers twist a little under braking, it's the rear (leading) edge of the pad that will wear more. This is when squeal should theoretically be the worst, but if you keep going with it, the pad should wear so that its surface is nicely parallel to the rim under hard braking, and is slightly toed-in under light braking.

That said, I use a very thin shim (like a rubber band) when setting up fresh brake pads, 'cause I'm impatient and don't want to bug people around me with noisy brakes any more than I have to. ;)

If the brakes don't shriek there's no compelling reason to toe them in. If they do shriek, I'll toe them in.

No toe in here unless absolutely necessary. Last set of pads I had I could feather the rear just right in the dry and get quite a loud harmonic vibrato to alert pedestrians. Now nothing:(

Disk brakes so....

and when it comes to V brakes, No by default, only as a last resort for squealing brakes

That's my policy too. I initially set up brakes square with the rim. If they don't scream at me, I leave them alone. If they do make noise, I adjust them however it's necessary to quiet them. Sometimes that turns out to be trailing edge first.

I can't really figure out how my cantilever pads stay toed in, but I can't ride without toeing them in. The squeal is just too embarrassing.

I've rarely, if ever, had squealing problems with dual-pivot caliper brakes (both short and medium reach), so I don't bother to toe them in. I have, however, never owned a cantilever brake of any type than did not eventually start emitting an ungodly shriek without frequent toe adjustments, even with Kool Stops, fork crown mounted cable stops (supposed to shorten the mechanical feedback path) different rims, different forks, etc. Which is why I now have discs on all my fat-tire bikes (touring, cross/gravel, etc.). I'm pretty happy with dual-pivot calipers on pure road bikes though, except in the wet.

when I remember. ugh, just remembered some squeal the last cpl times I rode my ice bike. easy to forget tho cuz I don't stop much