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SLR-EV vs regular dual pivot side pull brakes

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SLR-EV vs regular dual pivot side pull brakes

Old 03-06-18, 07:22 PM
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smashndash
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SLR-EV vs regular dual pivot side pull brakes

Hi all

After reading a bit online it seems as though Shimano's SLR-EV (5800 in my case) brake systems have a longer amount of cable pull than other brake systems. My bike came with a 5800 lever and Tektro Axis 2.0 (ie house brand) calipers. Personally, I feel like I have to squeeze too hard when braking from the hoods, but I also don't know what a "good" brake feels like. I pretty much always switch to the drops when stopping because of this.

Would swapping to the 5800 calipers significantly reduce the amount of force I need to stop? How can I measure my calipers so I know what their "leverage" is compared to the 5800?

On a side note, is the jump from 5800 to R8000 worth it? Or will there be a beefier 105 soonish?
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Old 03-07-18, 07:25 AM
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Try putting some Kool Stop Salmon pads on and see how it feels.
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Old 03-07-18, 07:52 AM
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You might also want to play around a bit with the lever reach adjustment (if any) and lever position on the handlebars. Sometimes if you aren't getting a good grip on the lever, or the angle of your fingers is off (ideally you get the most leverage when you apply force at exactly 90 degrees to the lever pivot), it can feel harder than it actually is.

From what I've read, the main advantage of the R8000 (other than looks and possibly a bit of stiffness) is that it opens wider to work better with 28mm tires. If you can get your wheel out right now without having to deflate the tires, then I don't think you'd notice much difference.

EDIT: My comment about the R8000 was relative to the 5800, as I forgot that the OP is running Tektros. I suspect either of these calipers will be somewhat of an upgrade, as the Tektro's leverage is probably designed to occupy some middle ground compromise that works best with the widest range of levers. It's still worth trying new pads and lever adjustments before dropping a lot of money though. The Kool Stops will still work on any new brakes you get so it's not wasted money.

Last edited by Metaluna; 03-07-18 at 10:14 AM. Reason: edited for clarity
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Old 03-07-18, 10:28 AM
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Leverage/MA, is math.. the relative length-distance ratios..

I Guess.. the lower cost tektro caliper lowered the sticker price, of the whole bike, Shimano calipers may make you happier..


I expect my Brompton dual pivots , though unique , because the cable enters from the bottom,
were probably made for them by Tektro...

I replaced the stock pad inserts with Salmon Kool-Stop...




...
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Old 03-07-18, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Try putting some Kool Stop Salmon pads on and see how it feels.
I'll try that. Do I need to get the shoes as well though? Because a set of kool stop shoes/pads costs as much as a single caliper...
Also should I expect a break-in period, or will the difference be immediately obvious?

Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
You might also want to play around a bit with the lever reach adjustment (if any) and lever position on the handlebars. Sometimes if you aren't getting a good grip on the lever, or the angle of your fingers is off (ideally you get the most leverage when you apply force at exactly 90 degrees to the lever pivot), it can feel harder than it actually is.

From what I've read, the main advantage of the R8000 (other than looks and possibly a bit of stiffness) is that it opens wider to work better with 28mm tires. If you can get your wheel out right now without having to deflate the tires, then I don't think you'd notice much difference.
I've heard that shimano levers are non-linear and have the best mechanical advantage near the bars - which I definitely believe. So I run my brakes far enough that I can make the levers hit my bars under hard braking. This helps with braking from the hoods but doesn't exactly make me feel like I'm dropping boat anchors.

I can easily drop my wheel right now but I eventually plan on going with 28mm tires on 29.4mm rims (CLX 50) to a) go faster and b) combat the trash roads around here. But I wonder if there will be a new 105 soon enough? If Shimano continues its regular cycles, that will be mid-2019... 1.5 years from now. Which is probably further than I'm willing to wait.

Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Leverage/MA, is math.. the relative length-distance ratios..
I'd really like to do this math, actually, to see if I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm just not sure how to do this math. Could someone point me to some instructions?

Last edited by smashndash; 03-07-18 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 03-07-18, 03:03 PM
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Check the Kool-Stop site to see if they have pads which fit into your current holders. Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977


I have not noticed the need to break in rim brake pads.
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Old 03-07-18, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I'll try that. Do I need to get the shoes as well though? Because the cost of a set of kool stop shoes/pads costs as much as a single caliper...
Also should I expect a break-in period, or will the difference be immediately obvious?



I've heard that shimano levers are non-linear and have the best mechanical advantage near the bars - which I definitely believe. So I run my brakes far enough that I can make the levers hit my bars under hard braking. This helps with braking from the hoods but doesn't exactly make me feel like I'm dropping boat anchors.

I can easily drop my wheel right now but I eventually plan on going with 28mm tires on 29.4mm rims (CLX 50) to a) go faster and b) combat the trash roads around here.
On a rim that wide, it shouldn't matter. You'll have to adjust the calipers wider to begin with, so when you open the brake release, they'll open even wider still. It's really the width difference between the rim brake track and the widest point on the tire that determines whether the tire will clear. I went from a 19mm to 23mm rim on one of my bikes recently, and suddenly I can get a 28mm tire out almost without any rub. Granted, these are medium reach brakes (most road bikes use short reach) but the principle should be the same.

Of course, on a rim that wide, you might be tempted to start wondering whether a 30 or 32mm tire will fit
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Old 03-07-18, 10:47 PM
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I'd really like to do this math, actually, to see if I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm just not sure how to do this math. Could someone point me to some instructions?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever measure relative lengths..
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Old 03-08-18, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Check the Kool-Stop site to see if they have pads which fit into your current holders.
Believe it or not, I had a pair of salmons lying around from when I upgraded an older bike. The brakes feel "squishier". I assume it's because of the little curve at the back end of the pads. The initial throw feels very similar, but there's definitely more "bite" under pressure. It's not what I would consider a drop dead boat anchor but I suppose that's for the better. I can safely come to a stop from the hoods from any speed now.

Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
Of course, on a rim that wide, you might be tempted to start wondering whether a 30 or 32mm tire will fit
I think I'm going to hold off on the brakes now that I know I can stop reasonably quickly. But I think 30mm would be overkill. 28mm with that rim would probably be overkill. But that's also just the right amount of kill
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Old 03-10-18, 08:21 AM
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Having the matched brakes would certainly help.
Stock Tektro pads aren't great and the leverage isn't helping.
As for that tab on the back of KS, I would take a file to ASAP. Worst feature of those pads, it gives them a really squishy feel, and requires you to run the pads really far from the rim.
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