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DT rims.. R460 or RR411?

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DT rims.. R460 or RR411?

Old 03-24-18, 01:14 PM
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DT rims.. R460 or RR411?

I have an old OpenPro build that I’m looking to rebuild with a tubeless rim. Looking at some of the spoke length calculators, it’s looks like I could probably get away with doing a straight rim swap with the DT RR411 and keep the spokes I have (about 1mm difference), or get a pair of R460s and replace all but about 16 spokes for arround the same price.

My question here is does anyone have any experience with both of these rims and can offer any insight as to what the difference is aside from rim height and about 10g per rim in weight. The 411 rim looks to be about twice the cost, just not sure why and if it’s worth the extra $. Build will be 32 spoke 3-cross laced to Shimano hubs and primarily used on my CX/Gravel bike.
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Old 03-25-18, 08:13 AM
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I recently built up a set of R460s for my fast commuter. Went from a CXP33 (F) Dyad (R) to the R460s, on Campag Chorus hubs. Very nice rim regardless of price. Nice and straight, very easy to build, but did need a touch of deburring the spoke holes prior to build. They make a nice solid wheelset once built up. About the only complaint I have with them is the NDS spoke tension is very low, ~40% of the DS, but this probably more due to Chorus hubs. RR411 have an asymmetric rim that would have really helped even out the tensions.

FWIW I also have some wheels built up with HED Belgium+, and I'd consider the R460s damn near their equal.
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Old 03-25-18, 10:10 PM
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Thanks, this helps. I considered Belgiums, but I’m trying to keep cost as low as possible as this will be a third wheelset for this bike. Just trying to make something out of a wheelset that gets zero use.
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Old 03-25-18, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty
I have an old OpenPro build that Iím looking to rebuild with a tubeless rim. Looking at some of the spoke length calculators, itís looks like I could probably get away with doing a straight rim swap with the DT RR411 and keep the spokes I have (about 1mm difference), or get a pair of R460s and replace all but about 16 spokes for arround the same price.

My question here is does anyone have any experience with both of these rims and can offer any insight as to what the difference is aside from rim height and about 10g per rim in weight. The 411 rim looks to be about twice the cost, just not sure why and if itís worth the extra $. Build will be 32 spoke 3-cross laced to Shimano hubs and primarily used on my CX/Gravel bike.
Is the weight limit much different between each rim?
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Old 03-26-18, 12:14 AM
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R411 is intended to be their exotic, high performance rim. It requires the use of included nipple watered washers and is very light for is profile.

R460 is their least expensive road rim. Haven't built them, but I'd bet they're pretty nice.
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Old 03-26-18, 11:46 AM
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I'm leaning toward the 460 at this point... but going to throw another random thought out...
I'm thinking of going with 24h rims and lacing them crows foot front (skipping every 4th hole in the hub), and 2:1 3x on the drive side, radial on the non-drive in the back.

Rim brakes, so no real torsional load issues in the front or on the non-drive side in the rear... the question is more about any foreseeable issues with leaving open holes on the hub in the front or on the non-drive side in the rear.
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Old 03-27-18, 12:17 AM
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2:1 makes sense, but the hub flanges on your rear are probably not designed for a high radial load and could fail. The same, to a lesser degree, to the radial spokes in the front.

If going down this road I'd at least lace the nds rear 1x to get them to run tangential to the flage.

Otherwise, sure, it'd probably work fine. I'd probably just run 32 spokes or throw down for a matching hub.
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Old 03-27-18, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cpach
2:1 makes sense, but the hub flanges on your rear are probably not designed for a high radial load and could fail. The same, to a lesser degree, to the radial spokes in the front.

If going down this road I'd at least lace the nds rear 1x to get them to run tangential to the flage.

Otherwise, sure, it'd probably work fine. I'd probably just run 32 spokes or throw down for a matching hub.
Good points that I didn't think about. Front is a HB-6500, but I don't remember if it's the 6500-A or not. The A is approved for radial lacing. Being crows foot, not sure if that's going to affect the load for the radial spokes, but definitely something to take into consideration.

The rear is a much newer FH-RS400 as I swapped the hub a year or two ago to be able to run an 11s cassette on it. From what I found, the front for the RS400 is approved for radial, but I couldn't find documentation for the rear. NDS should still be lower spoke tension, so I might be OK there, but the direction of the load being the issue, I'm still going to do a little more digging.

Worst case on the front... I can find a RS400 to match the rear pretty cheap and I know it will work. That would just leave the rear as the big question mark.
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Old 03-27-18, 12:27 PM
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For anyone who happens upon this and wants to figure out if a Shimano hub is approved for radial lacing or not... I will re-direct you to the specifications page on the Shimano SI site.

It notes if radial lacing is approved for all of the hubs on there. They have an archive page going back to '04-05, which covers the timeline back to early 10s groups (7800, 6600, etc). Nutshell, front hubs from 7800, 6600, 5501, 4500 and newer (excluding DA track, and 7700 above 24h) looks like they are approved.

I have yet to find a rear that is, but I'm not sure if that's because you really can't do a full radial rear, or if it applies to both sides. that being said, there are notes on some of the MTB Disc hubs that indicate that they can be laced radially on the non disc side (right side only).

In looking at the specs, the difference between the Flange Diameter and the P.C.D. is generally 10mm or larger on the approved hubs. The NDS on the FH-RS400 is 8.8. Thinking at this point I'm going to keep the 2:1 and go with a 1x on the non-drive side. Better safe than sorry. If my front hub isn't the 6500-A, it looks like I can get an RS400 to match the rear for about $25.

Thanks [MENTION=179963]cpach[/MENTION] for the suggestion.
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