Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Cannondale dropout spacing, do I need a new wheel?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Cannondale dropout spacing, do I need a new wheel?

Old 04-05-18, 12:58 PM
  #1  
sqwertl
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cannondale dropout spacing, do I need a new wheel?

I just got a 1996 Cannondale 2.8 aluminum bike off craigslist, 2x7 gears, Shimano RX100 downtube shifters and front derailleur, 600 rear derailleur.

Looking at the 1996 catalog at vintagecannondale dot com/year/1996/1996.pdf (sorry, can't post direct links until I have 10 posts here), the violet-to-black frame color was only available on the R600, but there is no R600 branding on the frame (only says "2.8 aluminum") and none of the other parts match up. The spec sheet also says that the R600 had 8 gears in back, while this one only has 7.

The bike had a flat tire, so I took the rear wheel off to fix it. It came off easily, but I had to unscrew the quick release by a few turns in order to get it back over the dropouts.

That didn't seem right, so I measured the dropouts, and the width is about 129-130mm. With the rear wheel installed, it went down to 126-127mm (sorry for the estimates, my calipers broke and I had to bust out the tape measure). Per Sheldon Brown, rear spacing is 126mm for 6 and 7 speed road bikes, and 130mm for 8 - 11 speed (sheldonbrown dot com/frame-spacing.html).

Did one of the previous owners install a 7 speed rear cog on this when there should be an 8, or is this normal? I'm going to upgrade this bike from downtube to STI shifting, and I might as well get a new rear wheel and upgrade the number of gears if that is ideal for this frame.
sqwertl is offline  
Old 04-05-18, 07:00 PM
  #2  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,358

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 931 Post(s)
Liked 731 Times in 496 Posts
Sounds like the previous owner swapped out older 7 speed components on that frame. I have '86 and '88 Cannondales and they are 126mm.

You will want to replace the wheels with 8-10, or 11 speed, that will allow you to upgrade to modern components. It depends on what upgrading you want to do since the derailleurs (and crank?) may also need to be replaced. For that frame you might want to proceed with caution as the costs can ramp up quickly.

If it is a hyperglide cassette freehub, and not a freewheel hub, the old wheel has value to someone who needs a 126mm hyperglide cassette hub if it is in good shape. They can be hard to find as I think they were only made for a year or two.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 04-05-18 at 07:08 PM.
70sSanO is offline  
Old 04-05-18, 07:11 PM
  #3  
alcjphil
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 4,404
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked 539 Times in 356 Posts
You are in luck. If the rear dropout spacing is 130mm (or very close to it) then pretty much any current rear wheel will fit in there. With a bike of that age, all kinds of modifications could been done over the years. Look carefully at the current rear wheel. If there is a 4 mm spacer behind the 7 speed cassette, your current wheels are compatible for as many as 10 speed cassettes. If you are willing to upgrade, and your current wheel can accept(possibly depending on whether there is a spacer behind the cassette), you have many upgrade options
alcjphil is offline  
Old 04-05-18, 07:20 PM
  #4  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,422

Bikes: Lots. Just...lots.

Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1504 Post(s)
Liked 832 Times in 406 Posts
If the rear spacing reduced to 126 when the wheel was installed, then in all likelihood you have a 7 speed rear freehub. You can either install an 8-9-10 speed freehub (most Shimano ones fit, cost about $20 on eBay) or go to a 130 OLD rear wheel. Nothing wrong with 7 speed, in fact nothing wrong with the RSX/600 component mix unless you just want more. Microshift brand 7 speed STI's will shift those components just fine.


However, if the frame is solid and in good condition, it can certainly accept any upgrade you want to throw at it -8/9/10 or 11 speed- as long as it's a 130 OLD rear hub. See pics for maximum vintage Cannondale upgradage:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
89BL 11sp right side.jpg (752.0 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg
89 SR red right side.jpg (719.7 KB, 169 views)
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is online now  
Old 04-05-18, 08:30 PM
  #5  
HillRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 32,796

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1645 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 500 Times in 377 Posts
I don't know specifically about Cannondale but several frame manufacturers in the mid-90's spaced their dropouts at an intermediate 128 mm and fitted the complete bike with either 126 mm hubs and 7-speed cassettes and drivetrains or 130 mm hubs and 8-speed cassettes and drivetrains at different price points. Trek, for one, did that and I believe there were others.

Currently Surly spaces a couple of their frames at 132.5 mm (called "Gnot-rite") to accept either 130 or 135 mm hubs depending on the intended use so the concept is still around.
HillRider is offline  
Old 04-05-18, 09:59 PM
  #6  
TallRider
Senior Member
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Even road bikes running Shimano RSX 7-speed (Shimano's lowest road group at the time, equivalent to Sora now) typically had 130mm rear spacing.
Some prior owner mixed-and-matched things.
As others have said, you can run 8/9/10 or even 11-speed setups. 130mm rear spacing is normal for road bikes.
You'll need a new rear wheel, as 7-speed cassettes are narrower (and the dropout spacing is also narrower on the wheel you have).
TallRider is offline  
Old 04-06-18, 08:51 AM
  #7  
Ironfish653
Dirty Heathen
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 1,461

Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 Softride

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 535 Post(s)
Liked 264 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by sqwertl View Post
Looking at the 1996 catalog at vintagecannondale dot com/year/1996/1996.pdf (sorry, can't post direct links until I have 10 posts here), the violet-to-black frame color was only available on the R600, but there is no R600 branding on the frame (only says "2.8 aluminum") and none of the other parts match up. The spec sheet also says that the R600 had 8 gears in back, while this one only has 7.
..........................................
Did one of the previous owners install a 7 speed rear cog on this when there should be an 8, or is this normal? I'm going to upgrade this bike from downtube to STI shifting, and I might as well get a new rear wheel and upgrade the number of gears if that is ideal for this frame.
That bike was never an 'R600'
In 1996 Cannondale ran a 'frame trade-in' program where you got a significant discount on a new 'Dale frameset if you brought in your old frame when you ordered it.
I think it was your choice of the R600 or the F1000, in one or two colors. The frames had the CAAD / 2.8 and Cannondale branding, but no model badges, since they weren't sold as complete bikes. My 'F-XXXX' is one of these, but it seem like the 'R600' frame was more popular. (or more of them have survived)

Built frame-up, so the choice of components was up to the owner/builder; sounds like your bike has an older 126mm wheelset. FWIW, my 1997 Softride has its' original RSX 7-speed hubs which measure 130 OLD.

It seems like 2 or 3 other 'Trade-in' R600's have shown up around here lately something in the water.....
Ironfish653 is offline  
Old 04-06-18, 09:00 AM
  #8  
Ironfish653
Dirty Heathen
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 1,461

Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 Softride

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 535 Post(s)
Liked 264 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
However, if the frame is solid and in good condition, it can certainly accept any upgrade you want to throw at it -8/9/10 or 11 speed- as long as it's a 130 OLD rear hub. See pics for maximum vintage Cannondale upgradage:
Are those yours? I've seen that Lightning. Amazing build!
Ironfish653 is offline  
Old 04-06-18, 03:44 PM
  #9  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,576

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sqwertl, I had a '96 R400 (loved the color) and it had 130 mm rear spacing, in spite of running a 2X7. Any frames sold as incomplete bikes (frame sets) or issued due to a warranty claim won't have a model ID decal.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 04-06-18, 10:12 PM
  #10  
sqwertl
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for all of the information everybody, I'm really grateful. It's interesting to peel back the history of this bike, and it's nice to know that I have some options depending on how much I want to spend on this.

I just looked closer at the rear derailleur, and it's a 600 rd-6401, so it's also meant for 8 speeds. This is one confused bicycle: 126mm 7-speed hyperglide rear wheel with a 7-speed downtube shifter, but 130mm dropout spacing and an 8-speed rear derailleur.

I think I'm going to upgrade to a 130mm rear wheel and 8-speed cassette, which will allow me to keep the current rear derailleur. I can put some Claris STIs on it for about $100. Looking at prices for STI levers in higher gears and considering the other things I would need to buy, I'd rather get a newer bike with a better groupset if I ever want to go for 9 - 11 speeds in the future. This whole bike was really cheap, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on upgrades.

One more question, if I can impose: I have never bought a new wheel or upgraded gears before, what exactly should I be looking for? I'd like to keep things economical since this bike will primarily act as my first foray into STI shifters. Once I figure out if I like this and want to get more serious with my riding, I'll probably buy a new bike in a year or two.
sqwertl is offline  
Old 04-07-18, 12:00 AM
  #11  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,358

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 931 Post(s)
Liked 731 Times in 496 Posts
It is a tough decision to know how far to upgrade. I have bought used wheels off eBay with decent results. A good all purpose wheel might be something like a Mavic Open Sport with 105 hubs. If you can get a 10 speed version cheaper that might help. Although others may suggest 11 speed for the future.

A fairly economical way to go is 8 speed with Claris brifters you mentioned. I've picked up new sets off eBay for $70. They shift nicely, a little bit of a long throw, but a good economical choice. Don't know what FD you have, but if it is index compatible you are fine. You don't need 7 speed or 8 speed, 9 speed specific, as they are all interchangeable with whatever shifters you choose... as long as they are Shimano to Shimano. 10 speed can be an issue depending on the particular derailleurs and shifters.

Your crank should be fine, unless you need to change the gearing. But you can also run a mountain bike RD with road shifters (7, 8, 9 and some 10) but not mountain bike FD's. This way you can run bigger cogs in the cassette if you need to and keep the existing crank.

I still run 7 speed with downtube index shifters and I'm running XTR mountain bike derailleurs. My wife is running Claris brifters with an XT mountain RD to an 8 speed 12-34 cassette. She is using a road FD.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 04-07-18 at 12:13 AM.
70sSanO is offline  
Old 04-07-18, 05:42 AM
  #12  
zacster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 7,134

Bikes: Kuota Kredo/Chorus, Trek 7000 commuter, Trek 8000 MTB and a few others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 241 Times in 193 Posts
Here is another option. Get a 10 speed rear wheel, chain and cassette and continue to use your downtube shifters in friction mode. I have two bikes set up this way and the shifting is MUCH easier than the old friction shifters with 5, 6 or 7 speed cassettes. With the 10 speed cassette you'll get the benefit of the shifting developments over the years with ramps on the cogs and spacing that is narrow so you are never between gears. With friction shifting you don't have to worry about rear derailleur actuation ratios. It all works a lot better than you'd think. And if you like this but still want indexing, you have a more recent setup to match. The only issue I encountered with one of the two bikes I have this way were the front chainrings were meant for the wider chains. It still worked but was noisier than it would otherwise have been. It should also work with the newest 11sp, but I've never tried it, only 9 and 10 but why go 9 when 10 is cheap.

The result is usually really easy shifting, just a touch of the shifter either way, and very quiet shifting, the chain rides up and down the ramps silienty. None of that clang clang clang of the old friction shifting. And the spacing is so narrow that you almost never end up between gears. Most of the development was done to get indexing to work smoothly, but in the end it made friction work better too.

Try it before you go with indexing, you may be surprised that you like it this way. You'll only be spending the money on this that you would have to spend anyway for wheel, chain and cassette.
zacster is offline  
Old 04-07-18, 10:44 AM
  #13  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,576

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sqwerti, The 2.8 frames are all alike and were OEM equipped with most every Shimano group and without double checking, Campagnolo Record. The 2.8 was the basis for many of the later CAAD designs.

Look for 8-10S compatible wheel sets. Velomine has some nice inexpensive sets. A 13-23 or 25 cassette works well with standard chain rings up to moderately hilly terrain.

Have a fun build and learning experience.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jbyrkit
General Cycling Discussion
4
10-25-13 07:09 AM
southpawboston
Bicycle Mechanics
5
12-24-11 01:50 PM
Vostok
Bicycle Mechanics
8
05-08-11 06:37 PM
karrar
Road Cycling
13
08-08-10 12:01 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.