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TRP HY/RD with new Shimano cable pull

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TRP HY/RD with new Shimano cable pull

Old 05-02-18, 01:29 PM
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NeoY2k
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TRP HY/RD with new Shimano cable pull

Hi,

Shimano has introduced some time ago a "new" cable pull on their road levers (105-5700 as far as I'm concerned), between canti and linear.
Do TRP's HY/RD work with these levers/new cable pulls?

I heard their bite point was too far, how does it go with these new shifters (or is the problem registered using these shifters already)?
What about cheating by making the pads closer to the disc like on MTB (halfway pull with wheels removed)?

Thanks,
Nicolas
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Old 05-02-18, 02:36 PM
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You get to choose the bite point when you set them up. , like any cable disc brake,

these just use the cable pull to actuate the internal master cylinder, that in turn forces oil
into the slave cylinders on either side of the disc..

RTFM?
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Old 05-02-18, 02:38 PM
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TRP HY/RD was designed with the "new" cable pull in mind, it doesn't work so well with older shifters or campy. You cannot cheat the pads closer much because the amount of travel on a road hydro caliper is so small. If you cheat the system by turning the cable tension knob past the point of removing slack and don't allow the piston to fully retract you lose the auto pad advancement function of a hydraulic system.
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Old 05-02-18, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
You get to choose the bite point when you set them up. , like any cable disc brake,

these just use the cable pull to actuate the internal master cylinder, that in turn forces oil
into the slave cylinders on either side of the disc..

RTFM?
Not exactly
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Old 05-02-18, 03:05 PM
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go over and help the guy then..

Trek's 720 came with HyRD & Shimano brifters, stock, so it must work together.


FWIW

Paul's Clamper disc you just change/order, the arm the cable pulls upon ..

comes in 3 lengths , of increasing lever MA , so shorter cable pull

Linear /V, Cantilever/ Road, and shortest cable pull , Campag Ergo..



....

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-02-18 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 05-02-18, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
go over and help the guy then
I answered his questions above in detail, have you actually set up HY/RDs?
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Old 05-02-18, 03:19 PM
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as I said the shop sells Trek the 720 was a last year's model .....
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Old 05-03-18, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
TRP HY/RD was designed with the "new" cable pull in mind, it doesn't work so well with older shifters or campy
Incorrect.
Refrain from offerring misleading and wrong opinions unless you have personally tried it, and discovered it did not work.

TRP Hy/Rd actually works very well with Campy.
~3500 miles with such front brake, with Campy Centaur 10-speed levers (the Ultrashift variety, circa '2009), awesome modulation.
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Old 05-03-18, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
Incorrect.
Refrain from offerring misleading and wrong opinions unless you have personally tried it, and discovered it did not work.

TRP Hy/Rd actually works very well with Campy.
~3500 miles with such front brake, with Campy Centaur 10-speed levers (the Ultrashift variety, circa '2009), awesome modulation.
Sure, thats why people have gone out of their way to come up with a solution for campy levers
Or we can listen to the Zinn master himself.
Technical FAQ: Road discs with Campy, high-speed shimmy, and more | VeloNews.com
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Old 05-03-18, 02:36 PM
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confirming what I said <C> has least cable pull. from the lever
shimano the market dominant should work on that caliper, as is..

no hacksawing needed....
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Old 05-07-18, 08:39 AM
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Thank you for your infos.
I hate road levers with a far away bite point.
Though I have no problem bringing a file to it (I actually am a pro bike mech, but have no experience with these TRP components) it seems that the result even then is "meh" at best.
I guess I would then be better served by the Spyre.

Any experience of the Spyre vs the HyRd? I tend to think that IME road disc brakes (mechanical) don't really offer improved braking over quality rim brakes. But if your frame takes only discs well you have to deal with it. How does the Spyre compare with say 105 side pull brakes on a Mavic Aksium wheel? Weaker breaking?

Thanks,
Nicolas

Last edited by NeoY2k; 05-07-18 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 05-07-18, 11:40 AM
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I had pretty good luck setting up a HY/RD to work with some Sora 3500 levers (which supposedly use the newer cable pull, though not the absolute newest). Then that bike got dismantled and repurposed so the HY/RD went into the parts bin for a while. Lately I tried to set them up with some Ultegra R8050 Di2 levers (can’t get much newer than that), and they were terrible. I could pretty much pull all the way to the bars without fully locking the wheel. I could get them to stop pretty well on level ground, but just based on the lever pull, I could tell it wasn’t going to cut it on, say, a 12% downhill. I didn’t spend too much time messing with them, so I’m not sure what changed. Maybe they need to be bled again or something. But my opinion on these calipers has shifted towards a heavily qualified “They’re great if you can get them to work for you, but that’s a big IF”. TRP seriously needs to rethink this design, with some way to adjust cable pull.

My experience with the Spyres is that they also have way too much cable pull, so you either need to use cable tension to preload the actuator arm so that it’s pulled in at least 1mm from its default open position, or use the adjusting screws to wind the pads in a little (maybe mine were just poorly adjusted from the factory). After that they work pretty well, though. At least you *can* adjust them, unlike the HY/RD’s.
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Old 05-07-18, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NeoY2k View Post
Thank you for your infos.
I hate road levers with a far away bite point.
Though I have no problem bringing a file to it (I actually am a pro bike mech, but have no experience with these TRP components) it seems that the result even then is "meh" at best.
I guess I would then be better served by the Spyre.

Any experience of the Spyre vs the HyRd? I tend to think that IME road disc brakes (mechanical) don't really offer improved braking over quality rim brakes. But if your frame takes only discs well you have to deal with it. How does the Spyre compare with say 105 side pull brakes on a Mavic Aksium wheel? Weaker breaking?

Thanks,
Nicolas
The spyre has the same longer cable pull issue with older levers and campy/sram. With HY/RD at least there is a solution. If you prefer not to hacksaw them, @joejack951 makes shorter arms that work.

Last edited by redlude97; 05-07-18 at 11:48 AM. Reason: mention tags seem to not be working, joejack951
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Old 05-07-18, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
Incorrect.
Refrain from offerring misleading and wrong opinions unless you have personally tried it, and discovered it did not work.

TRP Hy/Rd actually works very well with Campy.
~3500 miles with such front brake, with Campy Centaur 10-speed levers (the Ultrashift variety, circa '2009), awesome modulation.
Do your pads self-adjust?
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Old 05-07-18, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post


Do your pads self-adjust?
Of course. As do the pads of all properly installed Hy/Rd brakes.
That's the reason I switched to Hy/Rd.
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Old 05-08-18, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
Of course. As do the pads of all properly installed Hy/Rd brakes.
That's the reason I switched to Hy/Rd.
Which handlebars are you using? With a classic curve bar (Ritchey WCS Carbon Streem II), my Chorus 11 levers were bottoming out before I could get to max braking using HY/RD calipers with stock arms. Perhaps with an ergo bar I could have made it sorta work but the lever pull would have been extremely long, likely bottoming the brake levers on the brake hood.
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Old 05-08-18, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Which handlebars are you using? With a classic curve bar (Ritchey WCS Carbon Streem II), my Chorus 11 levers were bottoming out before I could get to max braking using HY/RD calipers with stock arms. Perhaps with an ergo bar I could have made it sorta work but the lever pull would have been extremely long, likely bottoming the brake levers on the brake hood.
I have the Campy levers on a Velo-Orange Grand Cru Course handlebar, a very classic curve type.
I like it for the quite long reach, as it gives my hands zillions positions, especially on the ramps.
No love for ergo bars here, don't fit my riding style well.

I don't experience any bottoming-up, perhaps you could look into slightly shimming the bottom end of your lever mounts where they contact the bar - to raise the bottoms up.
The same levers were previously used on a Nitto Noodle bar (also a pretty classic curve), operating Avid BB7s Road disc brake. No lever range issues there either.
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Old 05-08-18, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
I have the Campy levers on a Velo-Orange Grand Cru Course handlebar, a very classic curve type.
I like it for the quite long reach, as it gives my hands zillions positions, especially on the ramps.
No love for ergo bars here, don't fit my riding style well.

I don't experience any bottoming-up, perhaps you could look into slightly shimming the bottom end of your lever mounts where they contact the bar - to raise the bottoms up.
The same levers were previously used on a Nitto Noodle bar (also a pretty classic curve), operating Avid BB7s Road disc brake. No lever range issues there either.
Something's just not right here, or perhaps me and several hundred other cyclists simply don't know what they are doing trying to get Campy/SRAM levers to work with HY/RD calipers. I solved my issues by designing and machining a shorter pull arms for the HY/RD caliper. Other people seem to like them, too. I also have another bike with an Avid BB7 caliper (and older, short pull Shimano levers) and they require a totally different cable pull than a stock HY/RD. So the fact that you have used the same levers with both a BB7 and HY/RD caliper tells me that either a. I'm losing it or b. you are quite insensitive to lever pull and don't mind that your levers nearly bottom before achieving hard braking or c. you inadvertently (or on purpose but have neglected to mention it) attached your brake cable to the HY/RD arm in one of the alternate positions.
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Old 05-08-18, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
c. you inadvertently (or on purpose but have neglected to mention it) attached your brake cable to the HY/RD arm in one of the alternate positions.
C. is the correct answer!
And I did not fail to mention it on purpose - I simply assumed that everyone installing Hy/Rd with Campy levers would follow the youtube video linked in post #9 .
I'm pretty sensitive to lever pull, as I don't drag brakes on principle, and instead deploy short bursts of hard braking, and besides, the disc brake is my front one, which I use predominantly (rears on my road/gravel bikes are all rim brakes since they are very seldom applied).
The cable routing on the Hy/Rd as intended by TRP was ruled out immediately upon installation, as it was instantly obvious to me that it would never ensure a proper brake operation with the Campy levers.

I've been wrenching on bikes since 1968, so please forgive me if sometimes I automatically assume that a bike wrench (or owner) would do things in a certain way...
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Old 05-08-18, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
TRP HY/RD was designed with the "new" cable pull in mind, it doesn't work so well with older shifters or campy.
Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
Incorrect.
Refrain from offerring misleading and wrong opinions unless you have personally tried it, and discovered it did not work.

TRP Hy/Rd actually works very well with Campy.
~3500 miles with such front brake, with Campy Centaur 10-speed levers (the Ultrashift variety, circa '2009), awesome modulation.
Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
C. is the correct answer!
And I did not fail to mention it on purpose - I simply assumed that everyone installing Hy/Rd with Campy levers would follow the youtube video linked in post #9 .
I'm pretty sensitive to lever pull, as I don't drag brakes on principle, and instead deploy short bursts of hard braking, and besides, the disc brake is my front one, which I use predominantly (rears on my road/gravel bikes are all rim brakes since they are very seldom applied).
The cable routing on the Hy/Rd as intended by TRP was ruled out immediately upon installation, as it was instantly obvious to me that it would never ensure a proper brake operation with the Campy levers.

I've been wrenching on bikes since 1968, so please forgive me if sometimes I automatically assume that a bike wrench (or owner) would do things in a certain way...
So.... I was right from the beginning...
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Old 05-08-18, 03:46 PM
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Shimano being the dominant company, in the Bike Biz, I could not imagine not thinking of them when making such a component.
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Old 05-09-18, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
C. is the correct answer!
And I did not fail to mention it on purpose - I simply assumed that everyone installing Hy/Rd with Campy levers would follow the youtube video linked in post #9 .
I'm pretty sensitive to lever pull, as I don't drag brakes on principle, and instead deploy short bursts of hard braking, and besides, the disc brake is my front one, which I use predominantly (rears on my road/gravel bikes are all rim brakes since they are very seldom applied).
The cable routing on the Hy/Rd as intended by TRP was ruled out immediately upon installation, as it was instantly obvious to me that it would never ensure a proper brake operation with the Campy levers.

I've been wrenching on bikes since 1968, so please forgive me if sometimes I automatically assume that a bike wrench (or owner) would do things in a certain way...
Ah, of course, I'm always happy to forgive a longtime mechanic for installing a brake cable without a proper clamping feature and without any proper strain relief. I mean, who really needs brakes anyway?

I'm not sure what your agenda is but I'll admit that I'm mildly annoyed that even when presented with the youtube video showing the hack fix that you failed to mention that in your posts. To make matters worse, you accused redlude97 of misleading people. What's your deal?
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Old 05-09-18, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Shimano being the dominant company, in the Bike Biz, I could not imagine not thinking of them when making such a component.
You are missing the point of this discussion, fietsbob. No one is faulting TRP for targeting the latest Shimano levers with the HY/RD (and Spyre).
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Old 05-09-18, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
You are missing the point of this discussion, fietsbob. No one is faulting TRP for targeting the latest Shimano levers with the HY/RD (and Spyre).
Its not even just the latest, dura ace 7900 has been out since 2008/9 with the super SLR cable pull and HYRD came out in 2012. Sucks they never made two versions for different road cable pull but neither did Avid or Hayes etc.
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Old 05-09-18, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Its not even just the latest, dura ace 7900 has been out since 2008/9 with the super SLR cable pull and HYRD came out in 2012. Sucks they never made two versions for different road cable pull but neither did Avid or Hayes etc.
Well, there is a cheap-ish and easy way to convert them now
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