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Big chainring trim click disappeared

Old 05-10-18, 08:35 PM
  #1  
masi61
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Big chainring trim click disappeared

My Dura Ace 7703 triple front sti shifter got a new cable and housing this week. My crank is an Ultegra 6603 triple 30/39/52. The front derailleur is an Ultegra 6603. My front shifter has been getting harder to shift with especially hard release from the 52 tooth big chainring to the 39 tooth middle ring. And I no longer have the half click trim position that I always need in order to use bigger rear cogs while still in the big ring without rubbing on the front derailleur cage. This is a real bummer to me. I was able to improvise and find some usable gears while out on the road, but it has not been ideal.

These Dura Ace 7703/7700 shifters were purchased about 10 years ago and have ~12,000 miles on them. Iíve never flushed them out but feel like the front one has something wrong with it.

Can someone make a suggestion on how to improve my 7703 shifter to where my trim click is back?
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Old 05-10-18, 08:41 PM
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Release the cable completely and while lightly holding the cable in your hand cycle through the lever's range. Do you feel that "missing" click? If so then most likely the cable was set too tight. Andy
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Old 05-10-18, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Release the cable completely and while lightly holding the cable in your hand cycle through the lever's range. Do you feel that "missing" click? If so then most likely the cable was set too tight. Andy
Thanks, I will try this. I thought that I had clicked down to the lowest lever setting but the pull did feel too tight.
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Old 05-13-18, 01:03 PM
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I tried loosening the cable and “downshifting” multiple times to try and reset the lever. I’ve gone on two 40+ miles since then and only had it do a trim click on the big chainring like one time. What’s weird is that seems to want to do an intermediate click on the up shift to the big ring. Then, in order to get it centered on the big ring you need one final swoosh of the lever. By this time the cable feels tight, like some spring is bound up in the lever.

I’m about to remove the lever and try a WD-40 flush. I guess I’ll have to remove the lever to do this.

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Old 05-15-18, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I tried loosening the cable and ďdownshiftingĒ multiple times to try and reset the lever. Iíve gone on two 40+ miles since then and only had it do a trim click on the big chainring like one time. Whatís weird is that seems to want to do an intermediate click on the up shift to the big ring. Then, in order to get it centered on the big ring you need one final swoosh of the lever. By this time the cable feels tight, like some spring is bound up in the lever.

Iím about to remove the lever and try a WD-40 flush. I guess Iíll have to remove the lever to do this.

Well I'm hoping someone may have rebuilt one of these triple front shifters and has some insight into how to recover the "trim". I flushed some White Lightning Clean Stream spray into the shifter mechanism and wiped away some black dirt that flushed out. Then I drizzled in some synthetic machine oil. I also put oil on the nylon bottom bracket guide and also on the front derailleur pivot. I loosened the cable and when shifted to the 30 tooth baby chainring the cable has slight slack in it. When shifted to the middle and the big ring the cable is quite tight. When in the big chainring i can feel a detent subtly when I push downward but there is no "trim" movement at all. I have to push the lever all the way inward and then there is a hard, loud "clunk!" and, if I'm not care fully the chain will derail all the way down to chainrings to back to the 30 tooth ring. People see losing time on group rides and ride right past me and shake their heads. Meanwhile I have to improvise with a less than stellar gear selection and try to catch up with the back of the group, not fun!

Please if you can offer some advice based on my description, I would really appreciate it.

BTW: I purchased an Ultegra 6503 (?) shifter that is listed as 2/3 speed. Just wondering if I should swap this in and try it. I really like good trim and I'm not sure if the 9 speed generation of triple Ultegra had it or not.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Then, in order to get it centered on the big ring you need one final swoosh of the lever. By this time the cable feels tight, like some spring is bound up in the lever.
This is going to be in no way helpful, but I seem to recall at some point having this same issue with a left 6603. I have no idea how I fixed it, but there is no spring in the shifting mechanism. The release uses cable tension, so It's possible that there is something out of adjustment.

When you replaced the cable, did you make sure that the shifter was in the lowest position and that you got all of the slack out of the cable? I want to say that I had problems in the past with the cable not being tight enough when I clamped it on the FD. Basically, you get to the end of the stroke on the shifter before you run out of pull on the FD. If you don't have a 3rd hand too, you can set the low limit on the FD a little high and then back it out after the cable is tight, or similarly screw in the barrel adjuster all the way and then tighten it there.

As for the 6503, I honestly don't remember if it's compatible with the 6600/7700 series FDs. I *think* it's the same cable pull, but that's just a guess, so might be worth a try. Worst case, you just swap it back.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:15 PM
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I agree, sounds like cable is too tight.
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Old 05-15-18, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
I agree, sounds like cable is too tight.
it acts like the cable is too tight thatís for sure. I loosened it several times and it now is slightly slack when in the 30 tooth chainring. When I push the inside lever multiple times nothing really happens. Iím starting to think that the shifter needs a major flush off the bike, or replaced.

one odd observation though: Even though the housing and cable are new, when I sweep the lever through itís range it acts like there is lots of resistance.

iím pretty frustrated right now.
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Old 05-15-18, 08:04 PM
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Oh. Did you route the new cable end correctly at the front derailleur pinchbolt?
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Old 05-15-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Oh. Did you route the new cable end correctly at the front derailleur pinchbolt?
It is o. The topside of the pinch bolt. Which side should it be on?
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Old 05-16-18, 10:15 AM
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I really, really don't think it's going to be something inside the shifter. The left side shouldn't be going bad after 12,000 miles unless you shift the front a LOT, and I mean a LOT LOT. On top of that "flushing" it is going to remove any grease inside the mechanism. If it calls for grease, filling it with oil isn't going to do the job. If you really want to get into the shifter, plan on completely dissembling it and putting it back together, which I've done once, and I never want to do it again.

As you have not indicated that this issue was there prior to the cable and housing being replaced, I really thing that's where the issue lies. I couldn't find the doc for the 6603, but it should be the same as the 7703. I'd go through this meticulously and make sure you absolutely have the FD setup correctly.

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-5H20C-001-ENG.PDF
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Old 05-16-18, 12:24 PM
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I would think these should last much longer than 12,000 miles as well...

it it was hanging up a little with the old housing, plus the housing had never been changed since new.

thank you for the link. If it is a bad setup (by me), I hope Iím not messing it up further by riding it like this. It acts unhappy.
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Old 05-16-18, 03:20 PM
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Most of the time if the click disappears and/or the downshift click from the big ring is too hard, the outer limit is set too tight. Shift is all the way to big ring+small cog and check for rubbing, the tension should be set so that the cage just clears the chain, and the limit should be set so that if you push on the lever further or pull on the cable(ie under the downtube) there should be a bit more range to the outside. If not and you are physically hitting the outer limit screw of the FD then the shifting mechanism will bind
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Old 05-21-18, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Most of the time if the click disappears and/or the downshift click from the big ring is too hard, the outer limit is set too tight. Shift is all the way to big ring+small cog and check for rubbing, the tension should be set so that the cage just clears the chain, and the limit should be set so that if you push on the lever further or pull on the cable(ie under the downtube) there should be a bit more range to the outside. If not and you are physically hitting the outer limit screw of the FD then the shifting mechanism will bind
i believe you. It appears to be instruction #5 on the FD-7703 instruction sheet Iím working from. Iím actually using a FD-6603 (Ultegra10 speed triple) front derailleur with the 7703 shifter but am unaware of any incompatibility. Besides, this exact setup used to work fine!

I sprayed out the shifter today with White Lightning Clean Stream spray then followed it up with Boeshield T9. I thought about finishing up by pumping some of my Rock-N-Roll Super Web grease in there using the Pedroís micro grease gun but stopped short of doing that. Is this perhaps an OK idea?

BTW. after doing all this, I still have no big chainring click. Things are almost back to normal and I did forget to turn the high limit screw 1/8 of a turn clockwise this last time as the instructions say. I think Iím on to something but - wow - getting this guy set up correctly this last time has been quite the mystery.
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Old 05-22-18, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Most of the time if the click disappears and/or the downshift click from the big ring is too hard, the outer limit is set too tight. Shift is all the way to big ring+small cog and check for rubbing, the tension should be set so that the cage just clears the chain, and the limit should be set so that if you push on the lever further or pull on the cable(ie under the downtube) there should be a bit more range to the outside. If not and you are physically hitting the outer limit screw of the FD then the shifting mechanism will bind
I’ve played around with this multiple times and tried to get it like you describe. Unfortunately, it is being most stubborn. The upper trim click is empty. I mean, I can feel a half click ever so slightly but it doesn’t move the derailleur cage over any. So I’m totally unable to get anywhere near the big/big combo (or the 7th or 8th cog) on my 9 speed cassette.

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Old 05-22-18, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post


Iíve played around with this multiple times and tried to get it like you describe. Unfortunately, it is being most stubborn. The upper trim click is empty. I mean, I can feel a half click ever so slightly but it doesnít move the derailleur cage over any. So Iím totally unable to get anywhere near the big/big combo (or the 7th or 8th cog) on my 9 speed cassette.

what happens when you open the outer limit screw completely, what is the space to the outside of the big ring when on the small cog in the rear?
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Old 05-22-18, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post

one odd observation though: Even though the housing and cable are new, when I sweep the lever through itís range it acts like there is lots of resistance.

iím pretty frustrated right now.
This jumped out at me. It wouldnít be limited to just the trim, but have you looked for resistance where the cable goes through the Teflon tubing under the bottom bracket? Iíve had dirt and sand pack in there pretty tightly and mess up my shifting.
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Old 05-23-18, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Iíve played around with this multiple times and tried to get it like you describe. Unfortunately, it is being most stubborn. The upper trim click is empty. I mean, I can feel a half click ever so slightly but it doesnít move the derailleur cage over any. So Iím totally unable to get anywhere near the big/big combo (or the 7th or 8th cog) on my 9 speed cassette.
Ok, this one lost me. I thought we were dealing with a front derailleur issue. Are you saying you're having issues shifting into the big cogs as well? Are you able to get into the 7-9th cogs when you're in the small/middle ring? Likewise, are you able to shift it into the big ring from the smallest cog? Did you replace the chain the same time the cables were replaced?
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Old 05-23-18, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
Ok, this one lost me. I thought we were dealing with a front derailleur issue. Are you saying you're having issues shifting into the big cogs as well? Are you able to get into the 7-9th cogs when you're in the small/middle ring? Likewise, are you able to shift it into the big ring from the smallest cog? Did you replace the chain the same time the cables were replaced?
he's talking about the chain rubbing on the FD cage in the big ring, not that he can't actually shift into those gears on the big ring
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Old 05-24-18, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
he's talking about the chain rubbing on the FD cage in the big ring, not that he can't actually shift into those gears on the big ring
Thanks for that clarification. Yes, the ability to trim the front derailleur in the more big/big combinations without rubbing was my intent. Not the very last big/big (which in my case would be a 52 front / 23 rear cog. This last one I can live without due to cross chaining and accelerated chain wear. But the next 2 in line are good gears are handy for rolling terrain situations during group riding. My ďBĒ club ride that Iím participating in has such a collection of veteran cyclists, that a bad front mis-shift has been shown on numerous occasions to drop me to the back of the group just as things are intensifying with the group tempo.
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Old 05-24-18, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dyskolos View Post


This jumped out at me. It wouldnít be limited to just the trim, but have you looked for resistance where the cable goes through the Teflon tubing under the bottom bracket? Iíve had dirt and sand pack in there pretty tightly and mess up my shifting.
Bingo !

This morning I replaced the old nylon cable guide with a universal replacement one that came in the bag with a Shimano derailleur cable kit. It isnít a perfect fit but I made it work and the path of the inner wires is unimpeded. My old guide appeared clean externally. I canít tell for sure but the nylon grooves themselves were no longer slick.

As for the mystery trim click gone missing: Indeed, an overly tight cable appeared to be partly to blame. I ended up having to release excess cable tension as the front crank was in the middle ring - while on the intermediate hard click of the shifter. I was able to dynamically let out just enough cable to observe the front shifter ďrelaxingĒ as the intended trim clicks started to function.

As with most things mechanical (that I try to optimize myself), subsequent test rides reveal further adjustments requiring follow up. My Tuesday night ride was a slight improvement as I initially could feel the big chainring trim click. But then I ďlostĒ it again when I tweaked the adjuster barrel in an attempt to take up excess slack.

I will Iíll be doing the 45+ mile club ride again tonight, so I will post an update later. Thanks so much mechanics for your input.

Today I shortened up my housing slightly and double checked the middle chainring adjuster barrel to assure that it is correct with the Shimano instruction sheet. The front shifting movement no longer feels ďtightĒ but appears to move through the chainrings with much lighter effort.
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Old 05-24-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Oh. Did you route the new cable end correctly at the front derailleur pinchbolt?
Even though the cable had been on the top side of the pinch bolt, I had failed to route it outside of the ďearĒ that is there. This last time I went outside the ear, then into the groove (still on the outside of the pinch bolt). The cable makes a 90 degree turn right there, but I gently pushed it upward to clear everything.

I have generally prided myself on self on doing my own mechanic work but damn, you might want to nominate me for the ďless than stellarĒ award.
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Old 05-24-18, 09:51 AM
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Better or bigger pictures in the Shimano PDFs manual might help. I have routed that cable incorrectly more than once, even though I look at the instructions.
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Old 05-24-18, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Even though the cable had been on the top side of the pinch bolt, I had failed to route it outside of the ďearĒ that is there. This last time I went outside the ear, then into the groove (still on the outside of the pinch bolt). The cable makes a 90 degree turn right there, but I gently pushed it upward to clear everything.

I have generally prided myself on self on doing my own mechanic work but damn, you might want to nominate me for the ďless than stellarĒ award.

Wouldn't worry too much, everyone's done this at least once. Its when you've done it repeatedly that you need to start worrying about it. Glad you figured it out.
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Old 05-24-18, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
Wouldn't worry too much, everyone's done this at least once. Its when you've done it repeatedly that you need to start worrying about it. Glad you figured it out.
Thanks for the support pesty. I have had malfunctions with this same triple shifter and front derailleur in the past as well. So I guess you could say I should have learned (the procedure) by now.
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