Raleigh71

I wanted to replace the wheels on a vintage Raleigh Supercourse bought new in 1971 with some wheels of similar vintage.

For a few bucks I picked up a completely trashed Schwinn road bike with front hub dated 1973 that had serviceable wheels. It had alloy Weinmann rims made in Belgium, and QR 'Schwinn Approved' hubs that looked like the Normandy hubs that were OEM on the Raleigh when it was new. (I haven't even started on the rear hub yet).

Now here's the rub:

The OLD on the replacement wheel is 98 mm.

The ID of the front dropout is 90-91 mm. Add 5 mm for each side of the front dropout for an OD of ~100-101 mm. And that's how long the front axle should be. (I notice nobody out there sells axles that are 100 mm. Howcum?)

So the ID of the front dropout is 7-8 mm less than the OLD of the replacement hub.

I can shave off 4 mm from the OLD of the replacement hub by using thinner washers and slightly shorter cones, but that still leaves about 3-4 mm, which is more than I should be spreading the fork to put the front wheel in.

Any ideas?

2. The axle length on the replacement hub is 108 mm, and in fully threaded, so I can easily cut 8 mm off it and reuse it. (I have the die to clean up the threads, which it will need)

3. The threaded portion of the skewer from the replacement hub seems long enough I can probably cut off 8 mm and still have enough, or reuse the skewer from the wheel I'm replacing.

Comment?


P.S. The locknuts are M9 x 4 mm. I didn't see M9 x 3 mm locknuts offered anywhere, which would bring the OLD down to ~92 mm which is within the rage of being able to spread the fork to get the front wheel in. Anybody got a source for M9 x 3 mm locknuts?

fietsbob

sight unseen IDK , Got a Bike shop to show this to ?


Front hub are predominantly 10cm * force fit work?
Are you prepared to get the fork and frame spread by cold setting? (bending with out heat)
'
rear have been 120,5 speed; 126 6~7 speed 130 8 and more..
135 MTB and disc &or 29ers ..



fat bikes even wider * folding small wheel bikes , went with 74mm..




....

le mans

can you not swap out the axles, bearings & cones from the Raleigh wheels onto the new wheels?

Raleigh71

I was hoping to preserve the sealed hub on the old wheel but cracking it open is an option. I'll give it a try.

Thanks

le mans

I couldn't quite understand what you meant in the OP, but if the distance from flange to flange on the new hub is wider than your original wheel hubs.. it's something to consider

i have a whole range of front wheel road hubs, some older ones that came off 27" wheels measure the same as what was found on 700c wheels ..yet some others from 700c wheels... the hubs are smaller

Hoopdriver

Some of the older Raleighs had forks with 91mm spacing but I don't think that the Super Courses were. My commuting bike is a 1972 Super Course and I am using the original fork with a modern 100mm hub. I bought the frame from a guy who had it set up as a fixie so I have now doubt that the fork was cold set wider. Cold setting forks is structurally sound but you really have to maintain alignment. Upon riding my built up SC the first time I discovered that it pulled to one side. I had to re-bend both sides 2-3 mm in the same direction for it to ride straight and true. Even with the alignment concern, cold setting is probably easier than messing with axles.

Good luck.

79pmooney

90mm is an old standard, 100mm being the new. You have a choice. Cut down your new wheels (shorten axle and remove washers), spread the fork to just over 100mm and be free to use any current wheel (rendering your old wheel in need of a longer axle and washers) or force the new wheel into the current fork ID.

To do things right, the fork ends will need alignment after you spread the fork. (5 minutes and $20 for any shop with the tool.) In the real world, very little will happen if you don't do this. Bearing might not last quite as long. To upgrade the old wheel to 100mm might require finding a scarce longer axle with compatible threads or complete with cones and nuts where the cones might or might not be a good fit inside the old dust seals. With a good steel internal cam QR, you could get by with an axle that just barely makes it to the fork ends. (Some say the axle extension is not needed at all but I feel a lot more secure with it.)

If this was to be my bike and a regular rider, I'd spread the fork. I've never done it so I haven't figured out how I would check for side-to-side symmetry but it does need to be addressed.

Ben

Raleigh71

The inside diameter of the fork comes out right at between 90 and 91 mm so I think this is just the old style fork. It's never been messed with.

Here's what I'm thinking:

The over locknut dimension ('OLD') of the replacement hub is 98 mm.

The washers are 1.5 mm. thick. I can replace them with 0.5 mm thick washers. That reduces OLD by 2 mm.

The cones are 11 mm. long and I can substitute 10.5 mm cones. That reduces OLD by 1 mm

The locknuts are 3.5 mm on one side and 4 mm on the other side (user modification I assume). I can machine them down to 3 mm. assuming there are no 3 mm thick M9 locknuts off the shelf. (I did this once years ago). That reduces OLD by another 1.5 mm. (I could probably get away with machining them down to 2.5 mm.)

That saves 4.5 mm, and gets OLD down to 93.5 mm. That means I have to spread the fork between 2.5-3.5 mm every time I put the wheel in. That's a moderate pain-in-the-gluteal region but saves me from messing with the fork spreading, subsequent fork alignment issues and having to crack open the sealed hub on the wheel I'm replacing. If I get the locknuts down to 2.5 mm then it's only a matter of 1.5-2.5 mm fork spread to get the wheel in whicih is eminently do-able.

70sSanO

70sSanO

70sSanO

le mans

yeah, i've got lock nuts here there are just 3mm thick, so you should be able to source them, also if you eliminate those washers you should be right, are washers really necessary anyhow?!

Raleigh71

Thanks very much for the suggestions, gents.

The ebay links are for non-QR hubs, and I think one of them might be a steel rim.

I had hoped to get a matched pair of old alloy wheels in good shape with QR hubs and simply switch them in. And if they were of European origin, like the Raleigh, all the better.

Not so fast and easy it turns out.

I had been watching ebay and also the local Craigslist for bikes since last August 2017 when the rear wheel went kaput in a mini-disaster. (The rear derailleur engaged the spokes. It's a long story)

There are well over 1,000 bikes on the Grand Rapids, MI Craigslist, and I kept looking for vintage bikes with good wheels fitting the above criteria. Occasionally I'd see a candidate but for various reasons it wasn't acceptable, including, I didn't want to take a nice vintage bike and trash it just for the wheels.

Finally I saw a real clunker, the one I bought, that wasn't salvageable and got the wheels and a few other parts. The rest went right in the dumpster. I initially had trouble figuring out what kind of bike it was because somebody spray painted it once. Everything was covered in spray paint including the aluminum parts like the derailleurs and brakes. Most of the components were bent or otherwise not salvageable. But the wheels were OK with some TLC including replacing a few spokes, hub interiors and a good truing. That's where we are now.

And it's nice to know that 3 mm locknuts, at least at one time, were an off-the-shelf item. I looked in my usual sources on-line and didn't see any, so this means a trip to my trusty local LBS which has bailed me out in the past with weird parts I couldn't find.

And great idea: forget about the washer! I've always used washers in everything (and fuses in everything too-I'm a ham radio guy) but eliminating the washer is winner!

I really appreciate everybody's suggestions!