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BULLETPROOF BICYCLE BUILD - frame

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BULLETPROOF BICYCLE BUILD - frame

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Old 07-05-18, 08:35 AM
  #26  
Iride01
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Don't try to build the perfect bike. Just build one. Don't blow all your money on the first because in reality, I don't think any bike will completely serve every need you might want it to. So the experience from the first can guide you in the next. Ride it for the better part of a year and learn what does and doesn't work for YOU.
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Old 07-06-18, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Don't try to build the perfect bike. Just build one. Don't blow all your money on the first because in reality, I don't think any bike will completely serve every need you might want it to. So the experience from the first can guide you in the next. Ride it for the better part of a year and learn what does and doesn't work for YOU.
Valid advice, though you misunderstand me. Neither am I trying to build the perfect bike, nor is this my first. Quite on the contrary, I've had a chance to explore more or less what I like and what I don't riding stock built bikes. This is simply my first time building my own from parts. I generally don't like suspension on forks or frames because they slow me down, so do fat wheels hence why mountain bike frames are out of the question for me. Which is why I updated my statement to 'as bulletproof as possible for a road bike'. I'll try not to be too abusive but I'd like to build a bike that can withstand a little abuse.

As for the single speed coaster brake, I've noticed I only ride on one gear ratio, aprox 40:18 and plus I hate derailleurs, can't stand the bloody things. Both aesthetically and functionally, I bearly ever use them and they just ruin the bike visually, so do hand brakes. In essence I want a fixie with the advantage of coasting and the ability to break without skidding.

Kret
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Old 07-06-18, 02:23 PM
  #28  
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coaster brake is not a fixed gear , but a one speed..

you can build a bike with an 18 cog on a coaster brake hub.
Sturmey archer S1C ( cogs from 13 to 24 t )

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/pro...ail/s1c-silver


Go..





..

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Old 07-06-18, 03:51 PM
  #29  
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Well as far as you initial question about steel frames, like anything else it depends. There are steel bikes that will take a beating and steel bikes that won't tolerate very much. The few steel frames that got 1970 and 1980 era bikes down to a weight of 18 lbs are not going to like abuse. However there are a lot of steel frames in that era that got road bikes down to 23 to 24 pounds and they likely are strong enough for a fair amount of abuse that you'd think of giving it on a normal commute. For curb hopping, it's the rims and spokes that matter more.

Likewise though you will find examples of aluminum and carbon frames that will and won't take abuse.

As for not wanting the looks of an external gear system, then what about the internal geared hubs? Shimano makes and 8-speed internal geared hub with a coaster brake. Then there are also some CVT hubs that don't use gears internally and give you an infinite range of gear ratio between their designed min and max ability. NuVinci is one that is interesting, but whether there is a coaster brake version, I don't know.

I just never will understand wanting a single speed bike. But if you do then that's fine. I'd just think having a range of gear ratios will always be benefit with few negatives that could ever override the positives. The internal gear hubs from what I've heard are very trouble free compared to external geared bikes.

Still got the issue of braking if your chain comes off or breaks while at speed. But I suppose that it's less likely to happen on a single speed with front and back sprockets in alignment.
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Old 07-07-18, 12:57 AM
  #30  
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@fietsbob

I was thinking more along the lines of:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Velos...yztIClHH3SmEKQ

or:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/391505552842?chn=ps&var=660670533980&adgroupid=53230614440&rlsatarget=pla-399663136960&abcId=1130086&adtype=pla&merchantid=7213384&googleloc=9045377&device=c&campaignid=10290 29252&crdt=0

Quite frankly, I don't like overpaying for big brands. I don't doubt that that sturmey archer hub is excellent but I prefer simplicity and if an unbranded, cheaper product does the same job, I'll happily take it.

Does anybody have experience with these really cheap hubs in the second link. They're from China so I'm slightly sceptical, though if someone can convince me otherwise I'll give them a go. My prejudice is slightly in the favor of the velosteel hub in the first link becuase I've heard some good things about it and it's not ridiculously expensive. Also the shipping is within the UK.

Kret

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Old 07-07-18, 01:18 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I just never will understand wanting a single speed bike. But if you do then that's fine. I'd just think having a range of gear ratios will always be benefit with few negatives that could ever override the positives. The internal gear hubs from what I've heard are very trouble free compared to external geared bikes.
To each his own. I simply don't use my gears too often so I think I'll manage. Plus as a rule of thumb, the more functions you've got in any mechanical system, the more prone the system is to damage. I think I'll go with a simple coaster hub.

My goal is to mediate between speed and efficiency (hence the road frame and thin wheels), durability (hence the steel frame and 36 spoke wheels) and simplicity (hence no gears and preferably a coaster brake).

Kret
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Old 07-07-18, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by krecik View Post
Yh, that would make sense. Though I haven't seen any second hand frames with horizontal dropouts, I have seen ones with diagonal ones, sort of like a forward slash: \. Those ones should be okay since I'm getting a new chain with it anyway so I'll be able to remove links as necessary.
Look for frame that are from the 60's, 70's, or perhaps the early 80's. The horizontal dropouts should be plentiful.

Also look at track and fixie bikes with reverse dropouts.

Or, old Raleigh (and related) 3-speeds, perhaps from the 50's or 60's.
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Old 07-07-18, 08:35 AM
  #33  
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Big difference is. Which China?


Taipei/Taiwan is a big supplier of even professional level bicycles and components..
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Old 07-07-18, 08:41 AM
  #34  
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For my trouble free commuter I went with a NuVinci hub, a Gates belt drive, and hydraulic disc brakes.

I also put fenders on it.
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Old 07-07-18, 11:07 AM
  #35  
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I see no downside to trying a coaster hub. Like @CliffordK points out, look for horizontal dropouts. There are even some older MTB frames with horizontal dropouts, that would make a good starting point for an around-town bike. Most of those also had 36h rims that you could re-use if in decent shape. Otherwise, there are decades of road bikes that are suitable for conversion.

For me, "bulletproof" is relative to what bullets I'm actually trying to dodge. The main problem that I've encountered while riding, over 40+ years, has been flat tires. Next in line have been problems caused by simple neglect, such as stuff working loose. I've had some spoke breakage in the past.

Puncture resistant tires pretty much erased the first problem. Being motivated and equipped to keep my bikes maintained has solved the second. Spoke breakage is largely a matter of starting out with correctly tensioned wheels, which I've learned to do.

Terrain -- only you know your local riding conditions. But mainstream bikes are a lot less delicate than people tend to think. Road salt? Water and muck getting all over your pants?

A potential benefit of a coaster hub is that you can neglect the bike for a long time, and not worry about cable adjustment. Even chain lubrication is less of an issue. At my workplace, we have a 1963 Schwinn Typhoon whose chain is covered in rust with utterly no oil, and it rides just fine. All I did to the bike when it as given to us, was repack the Bendix hub. But to be honest, the actual amount of additional maintenance required by my bikes with multiple speeds is pretty minimal.

I do recommend a front brake, not just in case your chain falls off. Having ridden a coaster bike for many years, I've learned the failure modes. To stop the bike, the chain has to be intact, but also, your feet have to be on the pedals in the braking position. And the rear wheel always has weaker braking because of the force distribution when you're slowing down.

If you enjoy riding the bike, and fall in love with it, then you'll be more motivated to keep it nice. So, things like fit and aesthetics become important.

Is theft an issue in your locale? That's a whole 'nother ball o' wax.
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Old 07-07-18, 11:39 AM
  #36  
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Why do you need tubes? or pipes even? Go with some solid rods of steel with some lugs to hold it all together. Guarantee it'll survive your so-called "curb". Don't forget about the wheels: solid steel disc wheels front and rear.
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Old 07-07-18, 01:45 PM
  #37  
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You've said road bike and I consider a road bike with drop bars and your weight tends to be a little forward of what a cruiser/roadster type bike would be with an upright sitting position.

Since you want thin tires, and I'm thinking less than 23mm for thin, might your wheel be more prone to skidding with a smaller contact patch on the ground? I do have to watch out and move my weight back on several downhills that require stopping at an intersection so my rear wheel doesn't skid. One bike is more prone to this than my other, but both sometimes have me thinking I shouldn't be so reckless at times. Both have 25mm tires. I'd think more rubber on the ground would help.

Of course speed is also a factor in my equation. I'm going from at least 25mph to 0 in just a short distance. So maybe that has more bearing on the issue than tire width.

As for what kind of bike you build, I've no trouble with that. You seem to have valid reasons and I appreciate the discussion and responses you give. If everyone rode the same type of bike, it'd be a boring bike world with little innovation.
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Old 07-08-18, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Big difference is. Which China?
Taipei/Taiwan is a big supplier of even professional level bicycles and components..
Haha! True that! Well, you've got to be at least a bit sceptical?

Kret
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Old 07-08-18, 03:53 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
For me, "bulletproof" is relative to what bullets I'm actually trying to dodge. The main problem that I've encountered while riding, over 40+ years, has been flat tires. Next in line have been problems caused by simple neglect, such as stuff working loose. I've had some spoke breakage in the past.

I do recommend a front brake, not just in case your chain falls off. Having ridden a coaster bike for many years, I've learned the failure modes. To stop the bike, the chain has to be intact, but also, your feet have to be on the pedals in the braking position. And the rear wheel always has weaker braking because of the force distribution when you're slowing down.
Yh. I've been recomended Schwalbe Marathon plus as a flatproof and a long lasting set of tyres.
As for the front brake, I will reluctantly install it. I guess there is just no way to preserve purity without compromising safety.

Kret
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Old 07-08-18, 04:04 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Since you want thin tires, and I'm thinking less than 23mm for thin, might your wheel be more prone to skidding with a smaller contact patch on the ground? I do have to watch out and move my weight back on several downhills that require stopping at an intersection so my rear wheel doesn't skid. One bike is more prone to this than my other, but both sometimes have me thinking I shouldn't be so reckless at times. Both have 25mm tires. I'd think more rubber on the ground would help.
Yh, I have a slightly different definition of thin since I've always ridden BMX bikes and MTBs, thin to me means 1.5" and less so that's somewhere between 38mm and 25mm because I wouldn't want tyres thinner than an inch (25mm).

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
As for what kind of bike you build, I've no trouble with that. You seem to have valid reasons and I appreciate the discussion and responses you give. If everyone rode the same type of bike, it'd be a boring bike world with little innovation.
No worries man! This is one of the reasons why I hate faceless communication, It's so hard to hold a decided stance without it sounding like an attack. It's why I add a smiley emoji after posts. In any case please don't feel attacked, I really apreciate the discussion.

Kret

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Old 07-08-18, 08:20 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Why do you need tubes? or pipes even? Go with some solid rods of steel with some lugs to hold it all together. Guarantee it'll survive your so-called "curb". Don't forget about the wheels: solid steel disc wheels front and rear.
Not any better than a standard frame. The weak point on most steel (or aluminum) frames is usually the welds. Most frames aren't any stronger than the weakest weld.
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Old 07-08-18, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by krecik View Post
Yh. I've been recomended Schwalbe Marathon plus as a flatproof and a long lasting set of tyres.
As for the front brake, I will reluctantly install it. I guess there is just no way to preserve purity without compromising safety.

Kret
Maybe you should build a beach cruiser. That's a well recognized form, so your purity will remain intact. It should have better rear braking due to wider tires, weight distribution, and lower gearing.
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Old 07-10-18, 01:26 PM
  #43  
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Sounds like he should get one of the new steel Denalis, or even an older aluminum one. They are pretty tough, just don't have horizontal drops.
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Old 07-11-18, 06:36 PM
  #44  
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I have no problem going up or down curbs on my 630x32mm -tired path bike. For sure, i don't do it with nearly as much speed as the 26x1.95" tires on my commuter MTB allow me to do. Riding 'light' is the key. I have SPDs on both bikes, which allow me to literally pick up the back wheel to clear the edges of obstacles. I can do it on flat pedals as well, but not with the kind of finesse i can with clipless.

Also, what sort of bike did you have in mind for this to be? Flat-bar urban run-about? Swept-back classic 'Path Bike?' Stripped-and-slammed Track Bike clone? Actually, being a single-speed, it's mostly a mater of detailing, but I would recommend finding a frame that's got horizontal dropouts, or at least has the tensioners built in. Saves a lot of hassle getting the chain tension right.

Finally; it seems like you're trying to do this with used/found/vintage parts? Or just buying things piecemeal off EBy/Amzn and eventually you'll have enough parts for a bike? I don't know what our used bike market is like, but it may be possible to find all of the components/ characteristics you're looking for in two different bikes; Buy both, swap parts to the preferred frame, then assemble the remaining components in to a complete bike, and sell that one, to recoup some of your initial buy-in.

Heck, Nashbar has a 3-spd coaster brake bike for $179. Single-speeds (with handbrakes) are even less. And these are brand-new complete bikes.
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