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Thinking about a frame upgrade

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Thinking about a frame upgrade

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Old 07-12-18, 02:21 AM
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jonnymorrow
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Thinking about a frame upgrade

Hey guys. New to the forum. Seems great so far!

I'm a commuter/Urban biker. I have a Jamis Citizen 2.0 that I really love but she's a bit heavy and honestly, just the slightest bit too big for me. Otherwise I like all the hardware on it. I'm pretty tech savvy and I was toying around with idea of a carbon fiber frame upgrade. Anyone have experience with this? Any reason this wouldn't work? I see a lot of stuff on eBay that looks good but maybe designed for mountain bikes with different geometry than my bike. Also my bike has a threaded fork with a quill stem system. Is the steering tube on new frames compatible with threaded hardware? What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 07-12-18, 05:22 AM
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ironwood
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[QUOTE=jonnymorrow;20442824]Hey guys. New to the forum. Seems great so far!
I'm pretty tech savvy /QUOTE]Really?
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Old 07-12-18, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
Any reason this wouldn't work?
Not a good question. There are plenty of reasons upgrading to a new frame would not work or would not work well, not the least of which is your lack of knowledge about what factors are relevant. Sell the bike and get a different one, and don't be focused primarily on weight, as most of the weight of the bike when ridden is you, and very little of the bike's performance is affected by changes in weight.
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Old 07-12-18, 05:43 AM
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Bad Idea...

I can't imagine a worse problem to hand to your mechanic. Here's a carbon frame that is incompatible with this pile of low-end hybrid parts. Can you make it work? Ugh.

Please don't let this dampen your enthusiasm. You've decided that you enjoy riding a bike, and you're ready to upgrade. You'd like to do it economically. This process has happened to all of us, and we can identify. The challenge is that you underestimate the current limits of your knowledge and experience.

Determine what your budget is. Visit bike shops and talk with them about how you'd like to ride. Find the best bike that you can within that budget. Selling your Jamis might increase your budget by $200.

If you'd like to do the work yourself, start by assembling a complete bike. BikesDirect has flat bar road hybrids with aluminum frame and carbon fork and hydraulic discs for $700 right now. That might fit your needs. Who knows?

You might enjoy a road bike with drop bars, too. Don't rule those out. There are endurance geometry bikes that have a taller head tube stack so that the handlebars don't sit much lower than the saddle height. So these types of bikes are considered more comfortable by many. Good luck.

Last edited by Phil_gretz; 07-12-18 at 05:47 AM. Reason: added road bikes
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Old 07-12-18, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
Anyone have experience with this? Any reason this wouldn't work? I see a lot of stuff on eBay that looks good but maybe designed for mountain bikes with different geometry than my bike. Also my bike has a threaded fork with a quill stem system. Is the steering tube on new frames compatible with threaded hardware? What do you guys think?
I've done many frame swaps, and just helped a friend do two of them earlier this summer. IMHO, just buy a brand new bike in your situation. There is no payoff in trying to reuse the low-end parts from the Citizen, and you'll have much better choices if you look at complete bikes.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:33 PM
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N+1 time ... want a Carbon bike get a carbon bike ,,,

relegate your current one to more practical utility use.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:46 PM
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I have to agree with others...

Time to sit back and think about your goals. Perhaps learn a bit more about bicycle components and groupsets. Different brakes, bottom brackets, wheel attachments, forks, steer tubes, handlebar stems, etc.

Your mix of a nice frame and cheap components will leave you lacking, and you'll probably end up finding quite a few parts that simply won't work on the new build.

One thing you might do is to hunt for a battered version of your dream bike on Craigslist for cheap, then repair, rebuild, tune it.
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Old 07-13-18, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
I'm a commuter/Urban biker. I have a Jamis Citizen 2.0 that I really love but she's a bit heavy and honestly, just the slightest bit too big for me. Otherwise I like all the hardware on it. I'm pretty tech savvy and I was toying around with idea of a carbon fiber frame upgrade. Anyone have experience with this? Any reason this wouldn't work?
Being a bit heavy often has at least as much to do with the components as the frame, so transferring your Jamis' parts to a new frame may not save you as much weight as you'd hope. Frame size is a totally legit reason to look at a different bike or frame, though.

If you were to proceed with a frame swap, there are LOTS of variables when it comes to component compatibility... Wheel size, tire width, steerer size, headset type, bottom bracket width/type, dropout spacing, brake type, and so on, and so on. We wouldn't be able to tell you what would be transferable unless we knew more about the exact frames we're talking about.

Even with the closest possible match, there's a good chance that some components wouldn't carry over. And if it's more than a handful of parts, you may find that it's ultimately cheaper to sell your Jamis and buy a complete bike. Bike parts are typically *way* cheaper when purchased as part of an assembled bike. Plus, you wouldn't have to worry about whether or not the parts will work together.

And you mentioned looking online, and at bikes with different geometry. There's not necessarily a problem with that, but unless you're pretty familiar with geometry charts and fitting, be aware there's a decent chance you may buy a frame that doesn't fit you much better.
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Old 07-14-18, 08:16 AM
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Really good advice from most of the people above so I will just add one more thing. Even if it could work, do you have the right tools for the job? Headset, bottom bracket, chain, and assorted specific tools are needed to build a frame from scratch. If you don't have them, you have to add them to the cost of the build. In the end, the idea is a nice one but takes a more than what most people can do. If the bike is too big then sell it and buy something that fits better.
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Old 07-14-18, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
Hey guys. New to the forum. Seems great so far!

I'm a commuter/Urban biker. I have a Jamis Citizen 2.0 that I really love but she's a bit heavy and honestly, just the slightest bit too big for me. Otherwise I like all the hardware on it. I'm pretty tech savvy and I was toying around with idea of a carbon fiber frame upgrade. Anyone have experience with this? Any reason this wouldn't work? I see a lot of stuff on eBay that looks good but maybe designed for mountain bikes with different geometry than my bike. Also my bike has a threaded fork with a quill stem system. Is the steering tube on new frames compatible with threaded hardware? What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance!
Welcome!

A new frame = new bike. It isn't the same bike anymore. and as others have said, there is a lot of risk you need new parts for compatibility reasons.

thee is a joke that if you have a broom and replace the brush, and then the broomstick, and then the brush again if you still have the same broom....
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Old 07-14-18, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
Anyone have experience with this? Any reason this wouldn't work?
Yes. Tonnes of reasons that it will not work, read ALL of Sheldon Brown's stuff to get an idea of some of the reasons.

My primary commuting bike is a 1983 Schwinn World Tourist that I purchased new. It immediately got a new saddle. Within a couple of years it had the drop bars, stem and brake levers from the Sears 10 speed my parents gave me when I graduated Jr High. Awhile later the steel wheels were replaced with cheap aluminum wheels with a 7 speed freewheel and new rear shifter, and flat bars with MTB brake levers on the same stem. Next came Tektro R559 brakes. Then came some really nice sealed bearing touring wheels off eBay. A steel fenders were replaced with SKS plastic fenders. The FFS crankset was replaced with a 50/34 compact road set with a Shimano UN55 BB. Then the hubs from those wheels were used on another bike after a couple of spoke failures. And the frame was stretched to 135mm to work with a set of MT1100 hubs and 700c Dyad rims. Then frame and fork were replaced with a mid '90s Trek 720 and V-brakes replaced the R559 calipers. It later received a 1x9 drivetrain with a SRAM X.7 9 speed long cage RD, 12-36 Shimano cassette and 44T USAMade narrow-wide chain ring. And is currently in the process of becoming electrified with a 1200W rear hub, 5 speed freewheel and 58T narrow-wide chain ring. It is the same bike that I purchased 35 years ago.....

In addition to the parts, I have invested over $1,000 in special bike tools to be able to do this work.

Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
Is the steering tube on new frames compatible with threaded hardware?
very few if any frames sold separately will accept threaded stem hardware.

Originally Posted by jonnymorrow View Post
What do you guys think?
The BIGGEST bang for the buck in terms of changing the feel of a bike is the tires and tubes, followed by the rims (rims not wheels). Get a set of lightweight 700x28 tires and tubes, you will be amazed at the difference. Keep in mind lightweight are less puncture resistance.

According to: https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/citizen2.html you bike has a 1 1/8" threaded headset; this can easily be changed to a 1 1/8" threadless headset like this https://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Pro-T.../dp/B003LR9XUW with the correct tools. Then you can get rid of the heavy dull suspension fork for something like this: https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...ss-fork-ns-cyf

And get rid of that heavy suspension seat post and heavy chafing saddle.

Next a new wheelset Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA like these with Dyad rims and ATB hubs. And 9 or 10 speed RD, shifters and cassette, new lighter crankset to make a 1X.

By the way, the tools you need to do this yourself will cost about the same as the parts listed above.
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