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Reliable patch brand? I have vulcanizing glue already.

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Reliable patch brand? I have vulcanizing glue already.

Old 07-18-18, 09:35 PM
  #1  
bikebike3
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Reliable patch brand? I have vulcanizing glue already.

made a thread about a patch leaking...
I was suggested to instead use cold vulcanizing glue instead of the $0.75 cents mini glue tubes from china ebay sellers.

I bought a $16 can of Rema vulcanizing specially made for tubes.

I needed to patch a tube the other day. I did everything 'to a t' from how patching is suggested. I clamped the patch and left it overnight. I might have put a tad bit too much glue but probably not. I didn't glob it on or anything.

Anyway, what seems to happen is the cheap patches I have are peeling. I inflated it and can see the edges of the orange rubbery layer of the patch starting to pull apart from both the tube and from the black top layer of the patch. I think it might have something to do with also that this was a hard puncture to patch - it was two close together and both were on two different seams of the tube. I sanded the seams down but they were still bumped out a little. I figured the better vulcanizing glue would help. But I also just think these cheap orange and black patches are to blame. It seems as though once inflated they pull apart.


These are the patches similar: Both the circle and rectangle ones I have:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Weldtite...from=R40&rt=nc


What's a good brand of just patches? I only need patches I have glue. I don't want to waste money on a kit. Can you please link from ebay a good deal on just quality patches? Thanks
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Old 07-18-18, 09:42 PM
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Rema patches/glue are considered the "gold standard":

https://www.ebay.com/p/Rema-25mm-Rou...d=291587425416
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Old 07-18-18, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bikebike3 View Post
I might have put a tad bit too much glue but probably not. I didn't glob it on or anything.
Just wondering if you let the glue dry until it was no longer at all tacky before patching? I know this is sometimes hard to do when patching a tire by the side of the road and wanting to get underway ASAP. But when patching at home I generally do several tubes at a time and let them sit for at least 15 minutes so they have enough time to dry before applying the patch.

BTW, I'm currently using some cheap patches from a Chinese source that I got from Amazon a few years ago. AIRC, they cost about $2.50 for a set of about 50 patches and glue (they were actually free since they arrived way late and Amazon had already refunded my money). They've been working fine but are a little stiffer than Rema ones and it's a bit harder to remove the foil backing.
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Old 07-18-18, 09:57 PM
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now Park has stepped in to offer a good patch kit, too.
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Old 07-18-18, 11:59 PM
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The glue plugs the hole. The rubber is a strain relief so the hole does not pull open when inflated.
In other words, don’t worry too much about the patch. I like Rustines, sold by Velo Orange, because they are much easier to handle than the type with feathered edges. I especially hate trying to get the clear layer off of some patches.

3-5 minutes is about right before applying the patch. If it takes longer, you are applying too much glue. The bond is pretty much instant, but not very strong. It doesn’t need to be.
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Old 07-19-18, 04:59 AM
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Regarding the "clear plastic". We tour and I have gotten to the point where I just leave it on. Have not noticed any problem.
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Old 07-19-18, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KLiNCK View Post
Rema patches/glue are considered the "gold standard":

https://www.ebay.com/p/Rema-25mm-Rou...d=291587425416
Those are the ones I remember when I was younger during my time in West-Germany.
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Old 07-19-18, 06:20 AM
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Sounds like you might need a tire patch stitcher.

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Old 07-19-18, 09:05 AM
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I'm going to guess poor surface preparation. Every inner tube is coated with mold release so it can be removed from the mold after it's cured during manufacture. Nothing will stick to that mold release compound for long.

So, get out the sandpaper (100 grit woks well for me), and sand the area around the puncture down until the shiny is off the tube. Get a $3 kit if you need directions from there; it's basically put glue on the tube, let it dry until it's dry to the touch, peel the aluminum foil off the patch and press it on. I don't think clamping is really necessary -- I've never done it, and my patches are almost always reliable.
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Old 07-19-18, 10:41 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by bikebike3 View Post
made a thread about a patch leaking...
I was suggested to instead use cold vulcanizing glue instead of the $0.75 cents mini glue tubes from china ebay sellers.

I bought a $16 can of Rema vulcanizing specially made for tubes.

I needed to patch a tube the other day. I did everything 'to a t' from how patching is suggested. I clamped the patch and left it overnight. I might have put a tad bit too much glue but probably not. I didn't glob it on or anything.

Anyway, what seems to happen is the cheap patches I have are peeling. I inflated it and can see the edges of the orange rubbery layer of the patch starting to pull apart from both the tube and from the black top layer of the patch. I think it might have something to do with also that this was a hard puncture to patch - it was two close together and both were on two different seams of the tube. I sanded the seams down but they were still bumped out a little. I figured the better vulcanizing glue would help. But I also just think these cheap orange and black patches are to blame. It seems as though once inflated they pull apart.


These are the patches similar: Both the circle and rectangle ones I have:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Weldtite...from=R40&rt=nc


What's a good brand of just patches? I only need patches I have glue. I don't want to waste money on a kit. Can you please link from ebay a good deal on just quality patches? Thanks
IMHO this is sideways thinking, unless you are at a bike co-op or similar and patching hundreds of tires, buying a $16 can of cement, that will probably dry out before you can user it all is the waste of money vs buying a $5 Rema patch kit and replacing when it is all used. (which also keeps you in fresh glue
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Old 07-19-18, 11:29 AM
  #11  
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peeling at the sides? Mine did this. Now I apply the glue, let it dry. Inflate the tube just till it’s round and Touch the center of the patch on to the puncture. Then inflate a little more and press the sides down. Putting a patch on the round tube like that works better for me than putting in on flat and then inflating.
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Old 07-19-18, 02:48 PM
  #12  
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Rema 25mm Round Patches, 100/Box

...you already have enough glue to do all thee patches if you reseal the can well after each use.You might want to try keeping the can inside an airtight Ziploc bag. At least do that with the patches to prolong their life. Or just buy them in smaller quantities for a higher price per patch.
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Old 07-19-18, 02:50 PM
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My LBS sells those Remo patches for 25 cents each.
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Old 07-19-18, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by catgita View Post
The glue plugs the hole. The rubber is a strain relief so the hole does not pull open when inflated.
No, the patch makes it air tight, not the glue. You could leave a fairly big hole and cover it with a patch.
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Old 07-19-18, 04:50 PM
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My guess is if the patch doesn't stick you are doing something wrong.

I use a two dollar jar of elmer's rubber cement and those cheap patches from ebay you linked to. Always works fine for me, and I apply 1-2 dozen patches a year. The key is the surface prep and letting the glue dry completely. I am normally patching several tubes at a time so I prep the surfaces with sandpaper as someone else described, apply the cement and let them sit for a while. How long depends on how distracted I get doing other things. Could be 15 minutes, could be a few hours. The point is don't rush it. I have never needed to use a clamp or a stitcher. Right after I apply the patches, I inflate the tube and let it sit overnight to make sure the patch worked. In the morning I fold them up, wrap them in plastic wrap, write the size on the plastic with a sharpie and put them back in the spare tube bin.

I also have a jar of rema cement and a box rema patches. They work too.
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Old 07-19-18, 05:16 PM
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I am NOT an expert, but why would you (and I've seen a couple of you mention this) want to inflate the tube at all prior to putting it back inside the tire? Aren't you just asking to break whatever seal you just created? Isn't the pressure of the tube against the inside wall of the tire what helps keep the patch in place/sealed, and what makes them so effective given the pressures involved?
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Old 07-20-18, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
now Park has stepped in to offer a good patch kit, too.
I'm just a single data point, so for what it's worth, I I had about a 75% failure rate with the Park kits vs. a 0% failure rate for the Rema kits. Same prep procedure for both.
Cheers!
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Old 07-20-18, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
I am NOT an expert, but why would you (and I've seen a couple of you mention this) want to inflate the tube at all prior to putting it back inside the tire? Aren't you just asking to break whatever seal you just created? Isn't the pressure of the tube against the inside wall of the tire what helps keep the patch in place/sealed, and what makes them so effective given the pressures involved?
a good seal won't break outside the tire and I want to make sure the seal is good before I reuse that tube. I do em in batches and leave them inflated all overnight to make sure they don't slow leak. Occasionally I'll get one that leaks or I find another hole in the tube
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Old 07-20-18, 09:44 AM
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I use sandpaper to rough up the tube and then some hand sanitizer or some other alcohol-based product that evaporates quickly. Never had a patch peel up, even the glueless ones. YMMV.
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Old 07-20-18, 09:58 AM
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A chemist and a physicist on a couple of threads here changed my mind about what I thought I knew about patches.

Evidently some patch kits have chemicals in both the patch and the fluid, catalyzing the vulcanizing of the rubber. IF it actually does vulcanize it. Therefore, I personally decided just to simplify it and abandoned the idea of getting bulk patches and/or fluid. A reputable patch kit would presumably at least have the right chemicals to work together. Objectively I don't patch tubes all that often, the patches tend to work more or less permanently, and don't cost all that much. So you reach the point of just buying what works, even if it costs 2 or 3 times as much as bulk it's still just a dollar or two.
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Old 07-20-18, 11:30 AM
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I bought real vulcanizing fluid in a can from an auto parts store. It is as good as the little Rema tubes. I also bought Rema patches in bulk. These are what I use when I patch at home.

I make sure the glue is dry. It's better to err on the side of waiting too long. There really isn't a too-long. I forgot about my glue drying, and the patch still worked.

I used rubber cement for a while, but it was not as good.

I carry a patch kit in my tool bag in case the unlikely need to patch on the road comes up. I try to remember that once opened, a tube of glue dries up before long.
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Old 07-20-18, 11:39 AM
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One suggestion: stop using patches. I stopped using patches and just carry extra tubes, It's quicker when you're roadside, much easier, and you won't have to worry about the patch failing.
Sure, patches are cheap but tubes aren't that expensive and you'll have to replace the tube eventually anyway. If you're worried about space, you can always get a small under-the-saddle bag that can hold two tubes. If you're getting frequent flats, I'd look into checking out some tougher tires and better quality tubes, it makes a big difference from my experience.
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Old 07-20-18, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by n0+4c|u3 View Post
No, done right the new patch is as part of the tube repaired.
?

Originally Posted by redlude97
a good seal won't break outside the tire and I want to make sure the seal is good before I reuse that tube. I do em in batches and leave them inflated all overnight to make sure they don't slow leak. Occasionally I'll get one that leaks or I find another hole in the tube
How much pressure are you putting in them for these tests? If it's a very small/low amount, I guess I could see it, but it just seems like these patches were never intended to work on their own, out in the open, outside the tire. We all know what happens to tubes if you try to pump them up to a decent pressure outside of a tire...
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Old 07-20-18, 12:03 PM
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I carry a tube for each tire size and use it for my very rare on-the-road flats. Plan B is a self-adhesive Park patch. Flat repair in my garage is with a traditional patch kit.
But, my primary strategy is to use tires with some flat resistance properties built in (kevlar, etc.) and to inspect the tire surfaces regularly for nicks, cuts, and debris burrowing into the surface trying to get down to the tube.
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Old 07-20-18, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
A chemist and a physicist on a couple of threads here changed my mind about what I thought I knew about patches.

Evidently some patch kits have chemicals in both the patch and the fluid, catalyzing the vulcanizing of the rubber. IF it actually does vulcanize it. Therefore, I personally decided just to simplify it and abandoned the idea of getting bulk patches and/or fluid. A reputable patch kit would presumably at least have the right chemicals to work together. Objectively I don't patch tubes all that often, the patches tend to work more or less permanently, and don't cost all that much. So you reach the point of just buying what works, even if it costs 2 or 3 times as much as bulk it's still just a dollar or two.
It's difficult to cut through all the noise (especially here) -- it takes some effort. First drill down into sources like MSDSs for the cement to find whether substances like cyclohexyl-n-ethylamine are present or not. Then research can reveal uses of those substances like "cross-linking accelerator." Ultimately you may find dissertations detailing the use and mechanism of cold vulcanization. More importantly you'll know which cements have accelerators (Rema) and which don't (Slime). [Note: MSDSs are not authoritative as they don't list all ingredients. Look for older versions.]

Those who have good filters learn to ignore unqualified voices extolling things like Crazy Glue and Elmer's, and rely more on qualified research and empiricism.
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