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1x conversion - question about setup and clutch rear mech

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1x conversion - question about setup and clutch rear mech

Old 07-24-18, 08:40 AM
  #1  
msu2001la
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1x conversion - question about setup and clutch rear mech

I recently installed a new SRAM Force 1x 11 groupset to replace my old 105 2x10sp on my CX bike and am having trouble getting it shifting correctly.

Rear Derailleur: SRAM Force 1 type 3.0 medium cage
Cassette: PG-1170 11sp 11-32t
Chainring: 42T narrow/wide
Shifters: SRAM Force 22 on right, SRAM Force 1 on left (apparently this is the only way they are sold for 1x setups? The left has no shifter on it, the right does 11sp duty on the rear)
Chainset: SRAM Red22 11sp

All of the components are brand new, and I also replaced the cables and housings. This is the first time I've used SRAM components, and the shifting is a little different than Shimano stuff, but makes sense (one tap to upshift, two taps to downshift, a larger paddle shift will downshift multiple gears, etc). For some reason I cannot get the shifting working correctly. I have the high/low limit screws set so that the top pulley is even with the high/low cogs, but the indexing is all messed up and it skips gears and/or won't shift into the smallest cog. I've tried going both directions on the barrel adjuster and it seems to solve the problem on one half of the cassette, but not the other. The B-limit screw is also almost all the way out of the derailleur to get the pulley close enough to the big cog to keep it engaged, which seems weird.

I am reading that SRAM recommends a few extra links in chains for 1x. When I sized it, I wrapped it around the large cog/chainring and added two links. Is it possible my chain is a link or two too short and that's causing issues? The rear derailleur still has room to stretch further in the large chainring, so it's not totally maxed out.

The only other things I can think of are: My old 105 cable installation (done by a shop) had a rubber ferrule on the end that goes into the shifter. I re-used this rubber ferrule on the new SRAM shifter, but have since read that the housing should go directly into the shifter with no ferrule. This seems like such a minor thing, but I'm planning to pull it out tonight to see if that makes any difference. I also haven't wrapped the bars yet. The shift cable housing on the handlebar is just taped on with electrical tape right now, so it might be moving a tiny amount when shifting, but again this seems very minor. The rear derailleur looks straight, and I didn't have any issues with the old setup so I don't think the hanger is bent. The wheel is in straight. Pretty sure the cassette is installed correctly (can you really mess this up?).

I'm about to give up and take it into a shop, but wondering if anyone has any ideas of other ways to troubleshoot this? I have an event on Friday that I need my bike for and worried that I'll be re-installing the 105 drivetrain on Thursday night now. LOL.

Thanks.
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Old 07-24-18, 09:42 AM
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It really will shift better if you size big-big+4 as Sram recommends but probably not enough to explain your issues (except B tension--this is one of the reasons). The ferrule not seating into the shifter is quite likely to be causing problems. Also your new drivetrain setup is more sensitive to hanger alignment than your old, so I'd definitely make sure it is aligned precisely with a hanger alignment tool. Also did you seriously reuse housing on a new drivetrain installation? Waste of time--take care of it with the new installation to make sure that friction isn't the problem.

I hope you have the cut portion of your chain still, otherwise the odds of the shop insisting on a new one are high.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cpach View Post
It really will shift better if you size big-big+4 as Sram recommends but probably not enough to explain your issues (except B tension--this is one of the reasons). The ferrule not seating into the shifter is quite likely to be causing problems. Also your new drivetrain setup is more sensitive to hanger alignment than your old, so I'd definitely make sure it is aligned precisely with a hanger alignment tool. Also did you seriously reuse housing on a new drivetrain installation? Waste of time--take care of it with the new installation to make sure that friction isn't the problem.

I hope you have the cut portion of your chain still, otherwise the odds of the shop insisting on a new one are high.
Thanks.
I didn't reuse housing. I reused an old ferrule on the shifter end of new housing. I'll take out the ferrule and see if that changes anything. I still have the removed links from the chain too so I can lengthen it (using a 2nd powerlink connector) to see if that solves it.

I guess I was just wondering if there's anything unique about 1x clutched derailleur setups that might be different than traditional 2x drivetrains that I might be missing? I've installed several Shimano groupsets in the past and never had an issue. Sounds like they may be more sensitive to hanger alignment so I'll pay attention to that. Unfortunately I don't own a hanger alignment tool and they're pretty expensive, so I might need to take it in to the shop to have that diagnosed.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Thanks.
I didn't reuse housing. I reused an old ferrule on the shifter end of new housing. I'll take out the ferrule and see if that changes anything. I still have the removed links from the chain too so I can lengthen it (using a 2nd powerlink connector) to see if that solves it.

I guess I was just wondering if there's anything unique about 1x clutched derailleur setups that might be different than traditional 2x drivetrains that I might be missing? I've installed several Shimano groupsets in the past and never had an issue. Sounds like they may be more sensitive to hanger alignment so I'll pay attention to that. Unfortunately I don't own a hanger alignment tool and they're pretty expensive, so I might need to take it in to the shop to have that diagnosed.
Mostly they adjust the same. The gap from the guide pulley to the largest cog is larger at a specified 15mm, which generally results in the best shifting across the cassette, so if you're used to setting up Shimano 2x road setups that's going to be different. In general closer cogs are more sensitive to derailleur alignment, and and large range cassettes are also more sensitive.

https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...ser_manual.pdf is the official manual.
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Old 07-25-18, 07:59 AM
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Thanks again for the info. I hadn't considered how this setup would be more sensitive compared to a 2x10 speed setup with 11-25 or 11-28 cassette. With the 2x setup I rarely used the extreme ends of the cassette, so it's possible I just didn't notice/care if the shifting was a little sloppy going into the 11t or 12t cogs.

I took off the ferrule at the shifter end (some googling tells me that this shouldn't have been installed on my old 105 shifter either. A shop installed that one...) and extended the chain by a few links and still can't get it indexing across all gears correctly. Adjusting the barrel either way results in it work fine on the big 2/3rd of the cassette, or the little, but not both. When it's working on the big side, it will start sticking/skipping the 2-3 smallest cogs and won't shift into the smallest cog at all. Same happens in the opposite direction. There seems to be no middle ground that I can find.

I ordered a new derailleur hanger. I can't tell if the old one is bent or not, but it was $14 for a new one and even if I don't need it, having a spare on hand isn't a terrible idea. It makes sense that the larger range/11sp cassette is more sensitive to derailleur alignment and adjustments, so hoping that will solve it. If not, I'll take it in and ask a pro mechanic to diagnose and "fix what I repaired... haha".
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Old 07-25-18, 01:37 PM
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For what it's worth I do not assume a new hanger will install perfectly aligned as the dimensions of the dropout can also be off. Hanger alignment checked every time with a tool.
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Old 07-26-18, 09:19 PM
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I assume you routed and clamped the shifter cable properly into the rear derailleur?
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Old 08-03-18, 06:26 AM
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If it won't shift into the small cog at all, then either your cable tension is crazy high, or most likely you need to adjust your high and low screws correctly. I installed a setup just like this a few weeks ago, and also initially thought my alignments top and bottom looked spot on, but had shifting issues. I ended up setting them a little 'past' the biggest and smallest cogs. A minor tension adjustment again, and running super smooth.
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