Papa Tom

I'm sure this has been said in other ways before, but having recently watched a few Bike Forum members take a bashing for asking questions, I thought I'd jot down a few words that might help some people treat other Bike Forum participants a little differently.

Some of us grew up in a time when there was no Internet, and although we did not always have the answer to every single question at our fingertips, we benefited in other ways from being without this resource. The main one that comes to mind is that we very often either had to or wanted to look for answers from other people. Back in the 80's, you could spend an entire evening, or maybe a week, or perhaps even several years asking friends and strangers if they knew anything about XYZ. Amazing friendships and acquaintances grew out of two or three guys sitting in a bar trying to remember the name of the band that recorded a certain song, or the athlete who achieved a certain world record. When those few guys exhausted their personal resources, they would either start calling people they hadn't spoken to in a while or they would start asking complete strangers if they could help out. I remember those days very well, and I remember them fondly, as there was human interaction almost everywhere you went, from the supermarket to the movies to the beach to...well, anywhere.

Some days, I am lonely and I am bored. I have an idea about something I want to modify on my bike or something I might want to buy. I know I can Google it and trudge through a thousand pages of opinions and advice, but I don't know how many user reviews are "paid-for" or what kind of variable might have influenced someone's explanation of how to do something. The only way I feel I can get a solid answer is to post my exact situation, with every detail imaginable, and hope to find someone out there who has been there and done exactly what I hope to do. And if I don't get a definitive answer right away, I am consoled by the possibility that I might make some new buddies in the process, people who might have their own ideas about myriad topics, some that might apply to my questions, some that might just open my eyes to a whole new school of thought.

Yes, most of the time, you can find a pretty reasonable answer to just about any question if you just Google it. But at a time when the world seems so divided and people on the streets look at each other with suspicion and distrust (that is, if they even take a second to look away from their phones), there is a critically important role that forums like these play in keeping basic humanity alive. We might discuss the same tires and pumps and chains and lubes over and over and over and over again, but at least we are interacting, checking in with one another to reassure ourselves that the world is still a pretty good place.

Skipjacks

This. Man. Speaks. The. Truth.

And if you think this is bad, try a tech forum sometime for help with a smartphone. You get to deal with guys who live in mom's basement who enjoy holding their knowledge above you. At least on this site you're dealing with people who get out in the sunlight and ride bikes and have a generally happier disposition.

No one anymore seems to understand the concept of "If you don't want to respond, just don't." It's the same with TV. People say "I don't like what's on TV! It should be banned!" Why? Can't you just change the channel? Same thing here. Maybe I want to talk with my buddy Tom here about chain lubrication even though there are 9 bagillion website online discussing it. Maybe he read all of them and has a new idea no one ever thought of before. Maybe he just doesn't get it and needs clarification. Maybe his lubrication question is just a little different than all the others out there and there and someone could legitimately provide a new and unique answer. Maybe he just likes talking about lubrication (that'd be kinda weird, but I'm not here to judge)

I get it. You don't want the entire forum cluttered with endless chain lubrication threads discussing information that's in other threads because they threads about bottom brackets don't show up on the first page and get ignored. I fully understand that. But there's also nice ways to say that and jerk ways to say that.

But there is a trust here on this forum that the forum has earned. A trust that says "I believe what I read here." The members of this forum have developed that trust over years. So when someone asked a question they can get answered on Google by someone they've never heard of....they don't always trust the answer from a stranger. So they come here and ask the question in the forum they trust. It's a compliment, not an annoyance.

zze86

Good post.

I get that some of the questions can get repetitive and often the people asking the questions have no idea what they are describing which makes it difficult to ascertain what is going on but it should be remembered that everybody was a noob at some point or another. I try not to be critical and try to help if I can, unless it is a critical safety issue like leaking oil from hydraulic brakes. If a person is on here asking whether leaking oil is affecting they're braking or not, they should be given a gentle reminder that a life is worth more than the $70/hr or so shop fee.

I also agree about sort of just throwing things out sometimes just to get ideas and/or see what's new. Doing some searches and getting a general background is nice that stuff is static.

Bob Ross

It's a double-edged sword. You can often get more succinct & practical answers to technical questions faster by posting them on an internet forum or two than if you tried to contact the manufacturer directly, or Google it yourself. But then you do run the risk of waking the trolls that invariably populate said forums.

And the social aspect alluded to by the OP shouldn't be discounted. Just last night I wanted to know the recommended bearing pre-load torque spec for a Chris King headset. I realized I could Google that and get an answer in ~0.17 seconds (which is what I did) ...but as I was doing that I also suspected that if i were patient enough to post that same query on, say, the Bike Mechanics sub-forum here, I would probably get some good intel from informed & experienced wrenches about the project I was undertaking, and that (virtual) dialog would be both valuable and spiritually uplifting in a way that has nothing whatsoever to do with bikes or headsets.

I would probably also get some snarky "Chris King sucks, why are you using that overpriced crap?" responses, but provoking that kind of dialog has a different sort of spiritual value.

taz777

Excellent sentiment, OP. Kindness and empathy is free. One thing I’d add is that some of us don’t live in the USA so some questions, or the wording of those questions, may be perceived as rather bizarre! Overall, this forum is far, far friendlier than a couple of others I’ve seen, with some really nice forum members.

AnkleWork

Lots of baggage there. Not sure this forum can speak to most of that.

Could you post some examples, so we might know if there's actual "bashing" or just perception? In any good-faith conversation, all parties have responsibilities. Anonymous parties especially so.


Yes, the internet is a very noisy place. In reality truth has always been scarce and falsehoods common, but consulting another noisy source (e.g. this forum) does not seem to address the problem. May I suggest you improve your ability to filter? That's a life skill applicable in most aspects of life beyond google and bicycles.

JoeTBM 

It must be true.... I saw it on the internet

dedhed

Having been on the forum for a few years and going from neophyte to doing all my own work it didn't take too long to figure out who's advice you should heed over others.
This is mostly on Mechanics and C&V FWIW

berner

Occasionally, a post that is intended to be humorous could benefit from a smiley to make the point clear. In face to face communication there would be other clues besides the spoken word to clarify a point.

But I understand your point. Some people may be naturally cranky and there is a certain number who are deliberately disruptive because they are sociopaths. I've mentioned this in earlier posts and am still surprised by how wide spread such people are. I grew up in a very small community where such behavior was all but impossible. I suspect the anonymity of the internet promotes this behavior in those who are so inclined. The only thing to do is to ignore them just as you would not invite such people to your house.

csport

Papa Tom, I have found out about the North/South County Trailways some time ago from your site. Thank you! Did not even think something like that existed.

What about some Linux forums?
Not judging, I use it for work (to do computations) myself.

squirtdad

IMHO this is a pretty mellow forum...... Typically the only time I see people (myself included) get snarky is when an OP a) tries to herd the cats....ie specify exactly what type of response they want.....i.e "Don't tell me it is not a good idea to build a down hill bike with no brakes and fixed steering, tell me how to build like that so I won't crash b) Ask for advice and then ignores it or argues about consistently similar advice that is not the answer the OP wanted or C) similar situations

As for social.... the C&V (Classic and Vintage) forum is pretty social..... I have met a number of people from there IRL. I have bought and sold items from the C&V members and am much more comfortable doing that than craigslist or ebay

Paul Barnard

Great post Tom. I was thinking the same thing the other day. About forums in general that is. I have had fantastic results asking questions on this specific sub-forum. There are some very experienced bicycle wrenches here and they are most often very thoughtful in their replies. Some of the other sub-forums here are much more adversarial. A&S being one of them.

Colnago Mixte

I would add this. There are threads here started probably every day, that make absolutely no sense at all. You have 5 people responding and trying to figure out what the question even was. OP never returns to clarify their question, or if they do, they act oblivious to people's confusion as to what they are asking.

Eventually people start falling over each other trying to advise the OP arguing with each other as to what the OP's question REALLY is. It often turns into an ugly scene, and meanwhile the OP is nowhere to be found. Happens with frightening regularity around here.

Many of these posts almost seem to be put up as bait just to troll people, and more suspicious is the fact that the OP invariably only has one or two posts. There is definitely trolling going on at these forums, I believe. So when a post makes absolutely no sense, there is always the temptation to assume the person is trolling.

Day6

The original post makes a good point. My problem with forums though (I've only been on this one a short time) is the arguing .I swear, sometimes I think that if I posted it was daylight at twelve noon,I'd have thirty people come back and say no, it's midnight and dark. The big argument seems to be prices. Whatever it is, if you didn't spend at least $1000 on it, you're wasting your time. I left the biggest saxophone players forum because of that.
So, yes, friendships and insight can be had, but sometimes just Googling is less aggravating.

AnkleWork

Thank you for the succinct insights. One wonders how closely this thread will match your analysis. =)

AnkleWork

It's similar here except the one who proposes spending $1000 will be encouraged to spend $100 -- or zero.

evan326

Why is this in the mechanics forum?

Retro Grouch 

Title is pretty descriptive. Why did you think you had to click on it?

FBOATSB

Perfect place for it IMO.

scott967

Before there was internet, there was CompuServe and BBS among others. Then there wasn't "vetting" per se, but it was more of a tight-knit community on forums. Same thing on Usenet when it was hard to get internet access. I still think forums (and even a few usenet groups) are useful as a community. Back in the CompuServe/BBS days, there was significant cost in time and money posting and retrieving other's posts, so there wasn't so much "wasted bandwidth".

scott s.
.

Skipjacks

$ sudo apt-get install better_attitude_online

$ sudo apt-get remove being_a_jerk_because_someone_knows_less_than_you



If only you could...

$ sudo apt-get update my_rusted_out_bottom_bracket in real life to do bike repairs...

Obeast

This belongs in general cycling chat.