smashndash

thanks for the info. I actually struggled (a lot) to reinstall my 5800 pulley wheels. I can't seem to find any good info on this, but it feels like either I have to install the axle screws kinda loose (and thus risk the screws shaking out) or tighten them (and thus have TONS of resistance and an inability to backpedal). I see the recommended torque is around 3Nm which seems like way more than I'm willing to do.

I'm assuming I screwed up installing my pulley wheels. It's in the shop right now for other things but anyone have any guesses as to what I did wrong? I'm pretty sure I shuffled the shiny silver bushing covers between the two, and even the bushing inside. I also didn't see any grease in the wheels so I didn't bother adding any.

RocThrower

You should definitely should be able to snug up the pulley bolts without adding any spinning resistance, but you do have to have the right parts in the right place. I have definitely ran into the same issues by not putting the pulleys back correctly.

The guide pulley is the one that goes on top, and it is the one with the metal sleeve inside. The tension pulley goes on the bottom and does not have a metal sleeve. The tension pulley also has an arrow showing the direction of spin (I believe this should be oriented clockwise, but I'm writing this from memory). For the bushings themselves, there is one that will have a small slot on the end, and that bushing goes in the top guide pulley. The one without a slot goes in the bottom tension pulley. The silver covers don't matter which pulley they go to.

If you have the GS or long cage version, then the longer 12mm screw goes in the bottom tension pulley and the shorter 10mm screw goes in the top guide pulley. If you have the short cage version, then the screw lengths are the same and shouldn't matter. Again, if everything is in the right place, you should be able to tighten them down to 3nm and they should still spin freely.

smashndash

This helps SO much. Exactly the kind of instructions I was looking for. I didn't notice any sort of slot when putting the wheels back together. I'll take another look when I get home. And I have the short cage so the screws are of the same length. Thanks again!

RocThrower

No problem, glad I could help out! The "slot" isn't very pronounced, but you can see what I'm referring to in this pic:

smashndash

All right I'll look out for that. Probably should have left that job for the daytime rather than 10PM on a sunday night. Also do you recommend grease on the bushing, teflon lube, oil or nothing at all?

Davet

smashndash

Alright turns out I did indeed switch the bushings. Went ahead and added a dab of grease to each sliding surface and tightened both down to 3ish Nm and things are looking good. No heavy oil in the house for now. Big + big is still loud as heck tho. Sounds almost like a motorcycle.

I wish I could check out a pro level bike and see how much drive noise + resistance is considered "good". If I'm being honest, turning the pedals in a stand has a lot more resistance than the 5 or so watts that people talk about unless my arm dyno is totally off from my leg dyno.

My quest for the perfect bike continues. I'll post here if/when (most likely when) I get the dura ace pulleys.

Davet

smashndash

Fair enough. I don't. But the noise is still present across the board. It's just the worst in big-big. Not like the drivetrain is dead quiet and then it suddenly starts wailing in big-big. I'd be completely fine with that.

Dan Burkhart 

Correct. Also note that the bottom (tension) pulley is directional. Pay attention to the arrows.

alcjphil

There is another explanation that I don't think has been touched on and to explain it I will tell a little story. I will be a brief as possible. I had purchased a titanium frame to replace my beloved 1973 Raleigh Professional after I crashed it in a race. I also purchased a second hand 9 speed Campagnolo Chorus groupset for it. Everything was in fine condition, but it always ran noisy no matter how I tweaked, trimmed, or lubricated it. A year later, I bought myself a Look KG381 frameset as a retirement gift to myself. This frameset is an aluminum lugged carbon tube construction. I transferred my Chorus components to the new frame and voila! almost total silence from the drivetrain. The simple fact is that some frames transmit and amplify drivetrain noise. Yours may be one of them

smashndash

I can believe that. It's an aluminum frame with oversized tubes. I can't imagine Aluminum has great sound damping qualities.

alcjphil

I was just offering a possible explanation. May or may not be true for your bike.
A thought I had: Try strips of electrical tape applied longitudinally on the downtube, seatube, toptube and chainstays to see if that damps drivetrain noise. If that works, you will know that resonance in your frame is why you hear noise from your drivetrain

fietsbob

Carmichael,, made a Titanium pulley sealed bearing set ...

cpach

Just not true. With enough miles (and particularly worn chains) they absolutely wear down and require replacement. Also the bushings/bearings can definitely become so contaminated/worn that they can't be cleaned and lubricated. I replace pulleys maybe once a week, which isn't a ton considering I work full time, but isn't super rare, either.

Self Evident

I agree that pulleys definately wear out & need to be replaced from time to time, but isn't that a little excessive??

Oh, and to re-iterate a point made earlier that is the ultimate solution to everything: you need to use the correct chain lube! And the absolute best is a wax based transmission bar motor oil spirits. I think there's one called something like Dualbond-L Golden Rock Lightning 4D, or something like that..

smashndash

One of my friends uses wax and swears by it. We were all shocked when he suddenly bent over to touch his chain - just to show us how clean the chain was. I've also read studies that say it's faster. Can a waxed chain be quieter as well? If so, where should I look for a good tutorial on waxing a bike chain?

EDIT: just looked into it. That is a shedload of effort + time.

cpach

I know you're joking but I'm a full-time professional mechanic. I've never once replaced pulleys on a personal bike. Most pulley replacements are from people who never check chain wear and end up with comically stretched chains, but I've also seen some very high mileage rides wear them out, usually after dozens of chains and multiple cassettes. I've also seen a few from running in very dirty conditions but in those cases the whole derailleur is often worn.

Self Evident

Yea, I don't think they're something that needs replaced often - as I''ve only had to replace deraileur pulleys twice in my life, once do to the rear wheel eating the rear deraileur (tried to salvage the pulleys, but no dice), and the other time was that they were just really worn from a lack of maintenance. As in tons of side-to-side play causing the chain to sometimes wedge between the cage & pulley.

Self Evident

Yes, at least initially. After each re-waxing it is dead silent, assuming everything else is well aligned. But after a few hours it's no quieter than any other properly cleaned & wet-lubed chain. And I'm a waxed chain disciple.

As for the "shedload of effort + time. ", that's a topic for another thread, but it really isn't over all. It's just a matter of how the time is distributed: either in infrequent, but slightly longer blocks (for wax), or in more frequent, but shorter (and messier ) blocks (for oil).

smashndash

Well since I'm averse to wet lubed chains and have a hell of a time trying to clean drivetrains, wax seems like a not bad idea. I'll have to do more research before committing to it though. For example, aren't you supposed to not reuse quick links?

Self Evident

Well, some are marketed as reusable such as KMC's Missing Link with an 'r' suffix. I reuse them for the life of the chain they're on. I use KMC chains and they come with the reuseable links. I've had no issues on my chains that get removed & rewaxed about every 250 to 300 miles, and I get over 5000 miles per chain. I wouldn't use a quick link for more than one chain though, because they wear just like other chain links.

kingston 

I'm looking to replace the pulleys on my RD-5700GS with something that doesn't require quite so much maintenance to keep them from squeaking. For reference, this is for my randonneuring bike. I started a 1200k last weekend with freshly cleaned and oiled pulleys. By the end of the ride they were squeaking so bad the other riders were asking what was wrong with my bike. Are the 7900 pulleys the right choice for that?

Davet

Troul 

Replace the bushings, & in doing so, use a bushing made from brass material with no plating applied over the brass. Roll the brass bushing(s) in some thick all purpose grease (axle grease) before installing in to the center of the caged wheels.