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Rivets on large chainring clicking?

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Rivets on large chainring clicking?

Old 09-09-18, 02:38 PM
  #1  
woodardhsd
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Rivets on large chainring clicking?

Been trying to track down this clicking noise on my bike, but can't figure it out. I've already replaced the bottom bracket and chain, but it's still clicking. I went back today and made sure the chainring bolts were tight and noticed these little rivets around the perimeter of the large chainring. They don't appear to serve any purpose, and some of them appear to have been hitting something. Anyone know what the point of these is? I wonder if this is my click?

Close up of worst one:


Bottom one has been hitting, top doesn't appear to have damage.


Same shot as above, focusing on undamaged rivet this time.
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Old 09-09-18, 02:53 PM
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Go ahead an remove those rivets (better known as "pins"), then let us know how well it shifts up onto the large ring.

In general, any time I have odd noises coming from the region of the crank, my diagnostics are:
1. Swap pedals with known good pedals.
2. Ride bike. If noise gone, then it was pedal bearings.
3. If noise still there, replace BB bearings.
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Old 09-09-18, 03:14 PM
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As @Shimagnolo mentioned, those are shift pins (and shift gates). They are supposed to aid with shifting, especially with the synchro shifters. However, many vintage bikes continue to work fine without them.

They should not be impacting anything during normal riding, unless you are riding cross chained (small front, small rear), in which case, it is time to simply shift. Or, perhaps, your derailleur is out of adjustment or needs trimming.
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Old 09-09-18, 04:32 PM
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“They don’t appear to serve any purpose”
In all seriousness though, noises that sound like they are coming from one place can often be from something completely different. Any decent mechanic would tell you that. It’s especially difficult to diagnose noises you hear while riding. My first instinct would be to actually check the derailleurs. It’s a very good chance that’s where it’s coming from. Those shift pins shouldn’t be causing any noise, unless maybe one of them is loose? Or you are riding severely cross chained.
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Old 09-09-18, 04:37 PM
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They are a shifting aid. The chain is a poor choice for clicking unless it occurs regularly once every 2-3 or so crank revs, and then it's usually just a tight link. You need to start with the frequency of the clicking (crank/wheel revs) and any other conditions - gear combo, pedal pressure, in/out of saddle, as well as if it came on suddenly or gradually, and if after a maintenance procedure or accident. Doing so will help eliminate or focus on specific causes.
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Old 09-09-18, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
Go ahead an remove those rivets (better known as "pins"), then let us know how well it shifts up onto the large ring.

In general, any time I have odd noises coming from the region of the crank, my diagnostics are:
1. Swap pedals with known good pedals.
2. Ride bike. If noise gone, then it was pedal bearings.
3. If noise still there, replace BB bearings.
No, absolutely no.Crank/spindle interface, chainwheel bolts, BB seating in frame, etc.
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Old 09-09-18, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
No, absolutely no.Crank/spindle interface, chainwheel bolts, BB seating in frame, etc.
wouldn’t alll of those manifest themselves as more of a creaking sound than a ‘click’ as the OP described? The closest thing I’ve ever heard to a ‘click’ on a bottom bracket would be bad bearings, especially in a loose ball adjustable cup type. The fact that the OP thinks it’s the shift pins, leads me to believe it’s a ‘rotational’ click. As in he’s hearing it in time with his pedalling and the cranks rotating. So unless I’m mistaken in my interpretation, I still think one of the derailluers is the most likely culprit.

Last edited by seamuis; 09-09-18 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 09-09-18, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
No, absolutely no.Crank/spindle interface, chainwheel bolts, BB seating in frame, etc.
- Crank/spindle interface:
Never had an issue with it.

- chainwheel bolts:
Only issue I ever had was when the crank suddenly jammed and would not turn at all; Bolt jammed against chain catcher.

- BB seating in frame:
Never had an issue with it.
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Old 09-09-18, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post

wouldn’t alll of those manifest themselves as more of a creaking sound than a ‘click’ as the OP described? The closest thing I’ve ever heard to a ‘click’ on a bottom bracket would be bad bearings, especially in a loose ball adjustable cup type. The fact that the OP thinks it’s the shift pins, leads me to believe it’s a ‘rotational’ click. As in he’s hearing it in time with his pedalling and the cranks rotating. So unless I’m mistaken in my interpretation, I still think one of the derailluers is the most likely culprit.
There are several problems with your conclusions. First, it's quite common for the things I listed to cause clicking. Second, it's rare for clicking to occur from bearings. Often wheel bearings can have a clicking sound if the grease is gone and the bearings hit each other as they rotate, but that's not usually a once per rev pattern. Thirdly, we can only guess at this point the aspects of the clicking - we need more info before proceeding to diagnosis. Finally derailleurs are probably the least likely thing to cause clicking - more usually a scraping sound, and I don't know of a cause for a rear derailleur making a clicking sound unless it's once per chain link.
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Old 09-09-18, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
- Crank/spindle interface:
Never had an issue with it.

- chainwheel bolts:
Only issue I ever had was when the crank suddenly jammed and would not turn at all; Bolt jammed against chain catcher.

- BB seating in frame:
Never had an issue with it.
You may not have, but many bikes of the thousands I have worked on, as well as multiple examples on this forum have had clicking with each of those causes, as well as from Q/R skewers, saddles, shoe cleats and front derailleur cable ends. The BB bearings themselves are one of the least common causes of clicking. Often times people will replace a BB and the noise will disappear, but that does not mean the bearing was the problem, only that something they did while replacing it resolved the issue.
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Last edited by cny-bikeman; 09-09-18 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 09-09-18, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
There are several problems with your conclusions. First, it's quite common for the things I listed to cause clicking. Second, it's rare for clicking to occur from bearings. Often wheel bearings can have a clicking sound if the grease is gone and the bearings hit each other as they rotate, but that's not usually a once per rev pattern. Thirdly, we can only guess at this point the aspects of the clicking - we need more info before proceeding to diagnosis. Finally derailleurs are probably the least likely thing to cause clicking - more usually a scraping sound, and I don't know of a cause for a rear derailleur making a clicking sound unless it's once per chain link.
we may be in a disagreement about how the sound is described. ‘A click’ Or maybe more apt, a ‘knocking’ sound can frequently come from a bottom bracket that needs servicing, (like a bb that has had to deal with doing a lot of riding in heavy rain) but if the cups (regardless of type) aren’t seated in/tightened down, that, like a loose spindle would surely cause a creaking sound in my experience. similar to a creaky saddle. Plenty of derailluer related things can cause a ‘click’ sound: damaged jockey wheels, out of alignment (for multiple reasons, like a bent hanger) putting side flex on the chain, which can cause a ‘click’ sort of sound as the derailluer causes the chain to partly derail. A front derailluer can also cause a ‘click’ sound against the chain of its slightly out of alignment. A scrapping sound would only occur if it’s very bad. But again, we don’t have any clue what a ‘clicking’ sound actually means to the OP. We don’t know what kind of bottom bracket, crank, derailluers etc, the bike has. We’re essentially just arguing over what ‘click’ means based on our own interpretations. So I agree, that we don’t know enough to asses anything and are just shooting in the dark, since the OP hasn’t chimed back in.

i would suggest to the OP, to Hang the bike up on something (suspend it. Im assuming you don’t have a work stand) while off the bike and rotate the cranks at a normal cadence to see if you can recreate the sound you were hearing, while not riding it. Record it if you hear it. If it happens while not riding it, we can rule out that you are causing it, and it could greatly help pinpoint the source of the sound. Watch the drivetrain carefully to see if anything stands out as ‘not right’.

Beyond that, we’re all just wasting time speculating and arguing.

Last edited by seamuis; 09-09-18 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 09-09-18, 08:35 PM
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Years ago I chased my tail for a clicking sound. Repacked BB, retorqued the chainrings, checked all items. I looked at the front crank and chainwheels as I rode, Nothing. I checked the toeclip straps, still nothing.
Finally I elevated the rear and tried it all again. It was cured! Got on the bike and after about 100 yards, it began again. To make a long story short, it was the tip of one of my shoe laces hitting the crank arm. Back then cycling shoes laced up. Do not discount that it might be shoes, cleats or item of clothing.

A real long seat tube may have the bottom end tap against the seat tube as it is tight only at the pinch bolt and not in the thin area of the butted tube. More likely only when sprinting or peddling hard, unless the frame is flexible.
One last item can be a clicking spoke from a loose nipple/spoke. WIth 32 or 36 hole rims they can lose a spoke tension and stay true. Does the clicking time with cadence or rotation of the wheels.
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Old 09-09-18, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill in VA View Post
To make a long story short, it was the tip of one of my shoe laces hitting the crank arm.
I had that once.
Thankfully, I figured it out before taking the bike apart.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:13 AM
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A click is generally understood to be a discrete, sharp sound, at a relatively high frequency (compared to a "clunk"). Clicking ascribed to the BB/crank is a very, very common problem, but it's simply not true that "It’s a very good chance" that the derailleurs are the culprit. It is in fact impossible for the rear derailleur to be in any way related to a once per crank rev noise, unless it only occurs when riding a 1:1 gear ratio. The sound of a chain passing through derailleurs poorly is more often described as a rattling or scraping sound. The fact that the OP suspected one or some of the rivets as causing the problem means that the click(s) are not continuous but rather intermittent. Yes, we do need more info from the OP, specifically what I noted in post 5. However, the number one cause of once/rev clicking is the crank/spindle or pedal/spindle interface, either due to insufficient tightness or contamination/corrosion. With more recent external BB designs clicking sometimes occurs even when the BB is tightened, that is relieved by using Teflon tape.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:36 AM
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Pedals?

Whenever I've heard a clicking sound, I tighten the pedals and that typically fixes the problem. I find this particularly the case with the cheaper Shimano MTB pedals like the A530.

Originally Posted by woodardhsd View Post
Been trying to track down this clicking noise on my bike, but can't figure it out. I've already replaced the bottom bracket and chain, but it's still clicking. I went back today and made sure the chainring bolts were tight and noticed these little rivets around the perimeter of the large chainring. They don't appear to serve any purpose, and some of them appear to have been hitting something. Anyone know what the point of these is? I wonder if this is my click?

Close up of worst one:


Bottom one has been hitting, top doesn't appear to have damage.


Same shot as above, focusing on undamaged rivet this time.
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Old 09-10-18, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
Go ahead an remove those rivets (better known as "pins"), then let us know how well it shifts up onto the large ring.

In general, any time I have odd noises coming from the region of the crank, my diagnostics are:
1. Swap pedals with known good pedals.
2. Ride bike. If noise gone, then it was pedal bearings.
3. If noise still there, replace BB bearings.
LOL, had no idea that was what they were for. I googled chainring rivets and dodn't get much. Thanks for not giving me too hard of a time.

Originally Posted by raria View Post
Whenever I've heard a clicking sound, I tighten the pedals and that typically fixes the problem. I find this particularly the case with the cheaper Shimano MTB pedals like the A530.
I do have the A530 pedals. They are installed very tight. Early on, I did replace them with a pair of cheap nylon platform pedals that came with the bike. Honestly, I can't remember if the noise still happened. I guess I need to do it again.

I was really thinking it was crank related because it does it nearly every crank revolution. Sometimes, though, it's like it clicks every 380 degrees ( a whole revolution, plus a few degrees) or so. I have replaced the BB and chain already.
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Old 09-10-18, 01:19 PM
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There's your problem!

Try tightening the drive side pedal. For what ever reason they always come every so slightly lose with my FSA crankset. A good quarter turn is enough to fix the problem in my experience.


Originally Posted by woodardhsd View Post

I do have the A530 pedals. They are installed very tight. Early on, ...I guess I need to do it again.

I was really thinking it was crank related because it does it nearly every crank revolution. Sometimes, though, it's like it clicks every 380 degrees ( a whole revolution, plus a few degrees) or so. I have replaced the BB and chain already.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:10 PM
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your parts look to have minimal grease applied. Try apply a bit more non-spray grease & give it a test ride.
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Old 09-17-18, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
Try tightening the drive side pedal. For what ever reason they always come every so slightly lose with my FSA crankset. A good quarter turn is enough to fix the problem in my experience.
I found there is a little bit of play in the left side pedal. Had to order Shimano's special tool to get it apart to tighten the bearings up, and clean and grease them. Hopefully I'll have it by the weekend.
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Old 09-17-18, 12:45 PM
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Is the "clicking" in sync with your pedaling? I once had a clicking noise that drove me crazy. Turned out to be my shift cable rubbing the right crank arm. If it's not in sync with pedaling, it's probably not related to the crank.
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Old 09-18-18, 05:34 PM
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Last time I had a clicking coming from my crank, it took me 2 weeks to figure it out. The cause became obvious when my drive side crank broke while stomping up a hill.
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Old 09-19-18, 06:57 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by woodardhsd View Post
I found there is a little bit of play in the left side pedal. Had to order Shimano's special tool to get it apart to tighten the bearings up, and clean and grease them. Hopefully I'll have it by the weekend.
If that does not work we can all go on guessing as to the cause ("this happened to me one time") or you can assist with diagnosis by providing the info I requested in post 5 (and noted again in post 14) so that we can proceed with a logical, reasoned approach.
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Old 09-19-18, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
They are a shifting aid. The chain is a poor choice for clicking unless it occurs regularly once every 2-3 or so crank revs, and then it's usually just a tight link.
You need to start with the frequency of the clicking (crank/wheel revs) and any other conditions It's very close to each time the crank goes around
gear combo, Doesn't matter
pedal pressure, Pedal pressure doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
in/out of saddle, Just noticed yesterday it only does it when I am in the saddle
as well as if it came on suddenly or gradually, and if after a maintenance procedure or accident. Don't recall, actually. I know I hadn't done any maintenance on the crank or BB before it started

Doing so will help eliminate or focus on specific causes.
Responses in red above
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Old 09-19-18, 08:42 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by woodardhsd View Post
Responses in red above - Just noticed yesterday it only does it when I am in the saddle
The most likely cause for noise only when in the saddle is of course the saddle/post. Tighten the seat post saddle clamp bolts and see if that fixes the issue. Then check to see if flexing the saddle by hand causes noise. Sometimes cleaning the interface between clamp and saddle rails is necessary. The more rare possibility is a frame crack at the seat stays..
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Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
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