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Wheelbuild - Rim Width

Old 09-13-18, 11:17 AM
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Noonievut
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Wheelbuild - Rim Width

planning a wheelbuild and Iím not sure what is the ideal range for internal rim width given my tire choice and type of riding.

Tires are Panaracer Gravel King SK 27.5 x 1.9Ē. Will be running them tubeless at lower pressure. Disc brake with 12mm thru axles. On a bike used for mixed surface rides, with a focus on gravel (gravel is relatively small, roads have some small pot holes).

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Old 09-13-18, 11:29 AM
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https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net...WEB_ZZ_001.pdf
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Old 09-13-18, 11:59 AM
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Given the description of your riding surfaces, I'd tend towards the wider end of the recommendations online, such as DT mentioned above and Sheldon's. My choice of rim would be the Velocity Cliffhanger.

https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

Strictly my opinion. Others will be different, your mileage will vary.

Last edited by nfmisso; 09-13-18 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 09-13-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Noonievut View Post
what is the ideal range for internal rim width given my tire choice and type of riding.
I usually check these two spots:
VELOCITY USA: Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA << Optimal Tire Width: 45mm - 65mm on a 25mm wide rim (inside beads)
Schwalbe: https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions << Optimal Tire Wide: 42 ~ 62mm on a 25mm rim

It seems like when I've checked in the past the tire manufacturers would give you a wide range - use lots of tires on the rim you got!
And the rim manufacturer would give a tighter tire range - you need to buy more rims for all those tire sizes you want to try!
- but this example is dang close.....
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Old 09-13-18, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv View Post
I usually check these two spots:
VELOCITY USA: Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA << Optimal Tire Width: 45mm - 65mm on a 25mm wide rim (inside beads)
Schwalbe: https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions << Optimal Tire Wide: 42 ~ 62mm on a 25mm rim

It seems like when I've checked in the past the tire manufacturers would give you a wide range - use lots of tires on the rim you got!
And the rim manufacturer would give a tighter tire range - you need to buy more rims for all those tire sizes you want to try!
- but this example is dang close.....
Very good points about who's paying for the data Andy
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Old 09-14-18, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Noonievut View Post
planning a wheelbuild and Iím not sure what is the ideal range for internal rim width given my tire choice and type of riding.

Tires are Panaracer Gravel King SK 27.5 x 1.9Ē. Will be running them tubeless at lower pressure. Disc brake with 12mm thru axles. On a bike used for mixed surface rides, with a focus on gravel (gravel is relatively small, roads have some small pot holes).
I come at this from a different perspective. Iím far more concerned about mass...especially roatating mass...than about width. I choose the lightest rims I can find and donít worry about how the tires are going to fit. Tires change, mass doesnít. I regularly run 55+mm tires on 17mm rims without experiencing any downsides. The most important factor is the weight that I have to push. The wheels on this bike are build with XC-717 and Velocity Veloheats, both of which are 17mm.

DSCN1197 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

IMG_1975 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

I havenít used 25mm rims for 2.125Ē and larger tires in nearly 30 years and havenít discovered any downsides yet. The bike corners fine, climbs well and is rugged. It also happens to have nice light wheels on it.
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Old 09-14-18, 05:30 PM
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My rather limited experience with a 50mm tire (Schwalbe Big Ben) on an 18mm inside width rim (Velocity Aeroheat) on pavement was not secure feeling, the bike felt very loose in corners compared to the same tires on 25mm inside width (Velocity Cliffhangers). I found it a bit un-nerving, especially at 25+mph (ebike).
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Old 09-14-18, 05:51 PM
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The standard line about wide tires on relatively narrow rims is that "light bulb"-looking tires are less-supported by the rim under the shear forces (sideways) when cornering, and that wide tires are more likely to fold over sideways when cornering on narrow rims. I'm not sure how strong is the data that supports this conclusion, but I'v heard it repeatedly.
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Old 09-14-18, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
My rather limited experience with a 50mm tire (Schwalbe Big Ben) on an 18mm inside width rim (Velocity Aeroheat) on pavement was not secure feeling, the bike felt very loose in corners compared to the same tires on 25mm inside width (Velocity Cliffhangers). I found it a bit un-nerving, especially at 25+mph (ebike).
I regularly ride at speeds higher than 25mph on knobbed mountain bike tires. I’ve never felt any kind of looseness in corners.

Originally Posted by TallRider View Post
The standard line about wide tires on relatively narrow rims is that "light bulb"-looking tires are less-supported by the rim under the shear forces (sideways) when cornering, and that wide tires are more likely to fold over sideways when cornering on narrow rims. I'm not sure how strong is the data that supports this conclusion, but I'v heard it repeatedly.
I haven’t experienced any kind of “folding over” in corners over the 25+ years I’ve been running wide tires on narrow rims. And, as I pointed out, that’s with konbbed tires. Even on pavement, I’ve never had any kind of problem. Nor on rocks or hard pack. The “folding over” thing is a friend of a friend of a friend of someone’s mother’s second cousin’s godson’s nanny’s brother myth.

And, just too be clear, I’m a big guy who rides and corners aggressively. If anyone were going to fold over a tire, I’d be that guy.
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Old 09-15-18, 09:19 AM
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I'd look at the new DT Swiss rims. They have 27.5 rims in 25mm, 30mm 35mm and 40mm rim widths. Even better is their wheelsets. For less than $1000 you can have the star ratchet freehub in any of those widths with 15mm/12mm/9mm front and 12mm/10mm rear axle ends included. Less than $500 for the 3 pawl freehub wheelsets and all the axle caps.

If all you're doing is putzing around on fire roads and can stop with v-brakes then rim width is in the noise. If you're riding at the limit then wider rims have several advantages. Is it hype? There's still lots of folks that think friction shifting and rim brakes are anyone needs. Bless their hearts....
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Old 09-15-18, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
.

If all you're doing is putzing around on fire roads and can stop with v-brakes then rim width is in the noise. If you're riding at the limit then wider rims have several advantages. Is it hype? There's still lots of folks that think friction shifting and rim brakes are anyone needs. Bless their hearts....
It’s so amusing that you can use so little information to jump to such wrong conclusions. First, if you “putzing” around on fire roads usually means much faster speeds than riding single track. Secondly, if you can’t stop with v-brakes, it’s your skills that are lacking and need the crutch of “superior” disc brakes.

By the way, Mavic XC-717 as well as other similar rims in their line are aimed at cross country riders and used by professionals who aren’t “putzing” around.
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Old 09-16-18, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Secondly, if you canít stop with v-brakes, itís your skills that are lacking and need the crutch of ďsuperiorĒ disc brakes.
.
+1
seems weíve gotten off topic, but I agree nonetheless.
And as far as the comment a whole Ďnother person made about never rolling a beaded tire off a rim Iíd say stay within the tire manufacturers recommendations. If you put a big fat tire on a skinny little rim, a person is going to drop the pressure for bouncy roads, then their in a turn and rolling a tire off a rim. And as the Brits say - then Bobs your uncle. Believe it or donít the engineers working on this stuff are putting some thought and math into these sizings and pressure limits.
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Old 09-16-18, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TallRider View Post
The standard line about wide tires on relatively narrow rims is that "light bulb"-looking tires are less-supported by the rim under the shear forces (sideways) when cornering, and that wide tires are more likely to fold over sideways when cornering on narrow rims. I'm not sure how strong is the data that supports this conclusion, but I'v heard it repeatedly.
This is in-line with my experience on the road. When I went from 16mm To 21mm ID rims on my road/gravel bike, I was able to run the identical tire lower in the front without feeling it squirm under hard cornering on pavement.

Many people report the same thing with mtb tires, though I have never had the chance to test the same tire on 2 significantly different width rims. This may not be an issue if one runs higher pressures, but as people chase the lowest pressures they can get away with, tires squirming in corners or off camber scenarios is one of the limitinng factors. I know for me it is on the front end of my FS bike. And rim width (along with sidewall construction) effects this.

Rim width also effects the tread profile. With a narrow rim, you get a rounder profile and need to lean the bike over more to get the side knobs to connect. With a wider rim, you have a more square profile, and the knobs hook up with less lean. Too wide, and you start having intermediate or side knobs hooking up too soon (or all the time) and it just slows you down.

Peronally, if I were building a new set of wheels for what the OP is describing, I would go with something like 23mm ID. Maybe even a little wider..

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