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A novel approach to superior stability?

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A novel approach to superior stability?

Old 09-18-18, 01:49 PM
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RowdyTI
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A novel approach to superior stability?

Do you think there is a benefit to having one wheel a little closer to the one side of the frame and the other one a little closer to the other? I seem to think this could increase the bike's stability. What do you think?
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Old 09-18-18, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RowdyTI View Post
Do you think there is a benefit to having one wheel a little closer to the one side of the frame and the other one a little closer to the other? I seem to think this could increase the bike's stability. What do you think?
I think you'll be riding sideways. I think for better stability you should try training wheels. I think bike wheels are gyroscopes and therefore inherently stable. I think some folks think too much. I think I'll sign off now.
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Old 09-18-18, 02:41 PM
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How would it make it more stable?
The spinning wheels keep the bike upright.
Let a bike roll down a hill and it keeps going with no rider.
Your idea makes it awkward to turn and less stable.
There are setups like you describe but they use two sets of wheel like a car or some with three like a trike.
None work as a bike.
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Old 09-18-18, 02:58 PM
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It would become a two-track vehicle with the wheels staggered to be in the two tracks. Most folks would call that bike bent.
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Old 09-18-18, 03:58 PM
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What is your mechanism for thinking mis-alignment will somehow make the bike more stable? BTW, bikes don't rely on "gyroscopic stability" to remain upright and the spinning wheels aren't the reason they do.
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Old 09-18-18, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
It would become a two-track vehicle with the wheels staggered to be in the two tracks. Most folks would call that bike bent.
Or perhaps id call it a Schwinn Swing



​​​​​​​Its not particularly stable IMHO
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Old 09-18-18, 04:54 PM
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Someone once told me something that I assumed was bs. He said that perfectly aligned rotational systems are more prone to wobble than less than perfect.

His theory was that the precision item doesn't sluff off outside variation and this can build into a harmonic instability and there is a wobble.

An imperfect system is less efficient but dampens the harmonic instability and doesn't allow it to build.



Like is said, I didn't believe it. However, the most stable road bike I've ever owned is a handmade steel thing, not something off a mold or with a CAD mock-up. The least stable was a mass produced Litespeed Vortex that was utterly perfect, except it sucked.

I've seen the opposite too. Tri-spokes in a cross wind are unstable. Less than round wheels above 50 are terrifying too.

I don't espouse any theory here. I wonder if this idea is where the OP got his.

BTW, it would mean right turns require a different force than left. Not a fast design.
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Old 09-18-18, 05:07 PM
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Ask Arend Schwab. Here is a link to his
on bike stability
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Old 09-18-18, 05:49 PM
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The physics of it wouldn't make it wouldn't be any stable and the asymmetry would make it harder to ride - braking would pull to one side, etc.
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Old 09-18-18, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
The physics of it wouldn't make it wouldn't be any stable and the asymmetry would make it harder to ride - braking would pull to one side, etc.
Even if we're talking about a small precision offset of just 3 mm per wheel?

That's a good Ted Talk. The extreme of the two wheels offset is that the bike stands on its own. The theory is that a small precision offset would increase stability without being noticeably clumsy.

Last edited by RowdyTI; 09-18-18 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 09-19-18, 05:28 AM
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Should be easy enough to do. Redish your front wheel to one side and redish your rear wheel to the other. There's your offset. Tweak your brakes to suit, try it out and get back to us.
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Old 09-19-18, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RowdyTI View Post
Even if we're talking about a small precision offset of just 3 mm per wheel?

That's a good Ted Talk. The extreme of the two wheels offset is that the bike stands on its own. The theory is that a small precision offset would increase stability without being noticeably clumsy.
You should actually try this with ...and then come back and edit your post.
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Old 09-19-18, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RowdyTI View Post
The extreme of the two wheels offset is that the bike stands on its own.
uuuh...
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Old 09-19-18, 06:41 AM
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I think you are on to something here, but to make it even better just a 2nd wheel in back! It would not only be more stable, but each wheel and tire on such a "tri-bike would have to carry less weight, so they would be less stressed. More stable, fewer flats, longer lasting wheels - what's not to like? Of course for the ultimate in stability 4 wheels would be even better.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:19 AM
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And maybe a motor...
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Old 09-19-18, 09:29 AM
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stability

Trail measurement is a number .. distance between steering axis line
and plumb line down from the hub..
more trail is harder to turn off it's line.. stabile

Peter Fonda's motorcycle in 'Easy Rider' had a lot of it,
my small wheel folding bike , considerably less...




.

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Old 09-19-18, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RowdyTI View Post
Even if we're talking about a small precision offset of just 3 mm per wheel?

That's a good Ted Talk. The extreme of the two wheels offset is that the bike stands on its own. The theory is that a small precision offset would increase stability without being noticeably clumsy.
I don't see it standing on its own. There are still only 2 ground contact points.


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Old 09-19-18, 11:07 AM
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Engineer , British bike Designer Mike Burrows, in his book on bike design,

described a long wheelbase recumbent he made with 2 parallel wheel tracks ..
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Old 09-19-18, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
I don't see it standing on its own. There are still only 2 ground contact points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtIImATBchY
I might have to try one of those one of these days.

I have always felt that a little flex in a system can be of benefit, so walking along even a small log with a little flex may be easier than walking on a curb or railroad track with no flex.

So, one may be able to compensate for the moving board... Although, perhaps my 50 year old body is too old for it???

However, so much of those scooter things appear to be silly toys, why not just walk, jog, or ride one's bike?
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Old 09-19-18, 12:54 PM
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This forum has always preferred fantasy and speculation over verified fact.
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Old 09-19-18, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
This forum has always preferred fantasy and speculation over verified fact.
OK, then here's the course materials for a college-level class on two-wheel vehicle design and stability: https://web.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/lords.html
Bill Patterson's students were required to design and build bicycle-type vehicles for his class. Some were distinctly odd looking, but those that used his formulae were rideable.

The BikeE tandem was designed using his principles:

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Old 09-19-18, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
OK, then here's the course materials for a college-level class on two-wheel vehicle design and stability: https://web.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/lords.html
Bill Patterson's students were required to design and build bicycle-type vehicles for his class. Some were distinctly odd looking, but those that used his formulae were rideable.

The BikeE tandem was designed using his principles:
So I guess that you are saying that the OP's idea conforms to those academic principles.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
So I guess that you are saying that the OP's idea conforms to those academic principles.
I didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure what the original poster is describing.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
I didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure what the original poster is describing.
Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
This forum has always preferred fantasy and speculation over verified fact.
I left out non-sequiturs.
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Old 09-20-18, 03:02 PM
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Stayer bikes, Motor-paced racing, are very stable, at speed,
long trail because the axle plumb line is far behind the steering axis..


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