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The darn adjustable bottom bracket cup won't come out.

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The darn adjustable bottom bracket cup won't come out.

Old 10-15-18, 05:17 PM
  #1  
capnjonny 
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The darn adjustable bottom bracket cup won't come out.

I am working on a Shogun Alpine GT steel frame trying to finish disassembly so I can do an overhaul.
I have removed the drive side bottom bracket cup and the crank spindle but the adjustable cup won't budge.
Using a pin wrench just broke off the pins.
Using a punch in the pin holes just ruined the holes .
A (left hand) pedal spindle inserted through the hole in the cup and tightened as much as we could to a Forged left handed thread crank arm to act as a wrench just turns against the cup no mater how much we tighten it.
Liquid wrench left to soak a couple days didn't do anything.

Any other suggestions? heat? saw through the threads from the inside?
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Old 10-15-18, 05:41 PM
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I haven't done it on a bike, but in auto and plumbing I've carefully cut the threads in one or more places then taken a cold chisel to it to break it loose. You may then need a shop to chase the threads with the correct die, or use an old freewheel hub (threads are the same on the NDS, I hear).

Or cut a wide slot across the face, and use that for cold chisel purchase at the outside edge of the piece.

Heat (electric heat gun) may help, but you probably just can't get enough torque on the piece.
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Old 10-15-18, 06:05 PM
  #3  
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Before resorting to extreme measures, try putting on some Kano Kroil (best) or PB Blaster. Liquid Wrench is weak in comparison. After applying a generous amount give the joint a few whacks to get things started, then wait overnight or better 24 hours and try to remove it. If not try more goop and time.
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Old 10-15-18, 07:12 PM
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Can you get a pipe wrench on it? I've had to do that a time or three.
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Old 10-15-18, 07:45 PM
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Here's a tool that might help:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Also get as many factors in your favor as possible: soak with Kroil or PB Blaster for at least a week, apply heat, and make absolutely certain* you are turning the correct direction.

*A recent poster here said "pretty sure" about thread direction but this is binary: either 100% right or 100% wrong. You can guess which.

Last edited by AnkleWork; 10-15-18 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 10-15-18, 08:10 PM
  #6  
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Use Sheldon's tool (which he describes as being for fixed cups), linked above, following the French or Italian thread variation. I think the washers are key, since it provides more surface area to grip the cup.
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Old 10-15-18, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by capnjonny View Post
...

Any other suggestions? heat? saw through the threads from the inside?
1. Do not attempt to cut it out. Cups are hardened, and it's a Herculean task.

2. The best penetrating oil (by far) is a 50/50mix of acetone and ATF. since you work in the co-op environment, you need to try this.
Keep it in a plastic bottle that is acetone resistant plastic, or the bottle will melt. An old, small black squeeze bottle from Tri Flow is what I use.
Shake it before each use, and cap it when not in use.

3. In some cases, you can file wrench flats on the portion of the cup that was exposed when you removed the lock ring.
Then use some sort of bolt and fender washers to affix whatever wrench to the cup and hit the handle of it with a hammer.

4. Again, since you have a co-op (where I presume you do much of this work), you really ought to convince them to buy a Hozan fixed cup tool.
It will also work well for this adjustable cup, inserted in the proper direction and used without the flats attachment of the tool.

5. If you have one, a MAPP gas torch will make this and other stuck cups come out easily with heat, but be careful not to get the shell hot enough to blister the paint.
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Old 10-16-18, 12:08 PM
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Yea, +1 _ #6 , ..

get the Fixed cup out first, It's CCW thread.. then ..

deal with the adjustable cup.
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Old 10-16-18, 02:54 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Here's a tool that might help:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Also get as many factors in your favor as possible: soak with Kroil or PB Blaster for at least a week, apply heat, and make absolutely certain* you are turning the correct direction.

*A recent poster here said "pretty sure" about thread direction but this is binary: either 100% right or 100% wrong. You can guess which.
I have had good luck with this tool/method

also I recommend PBBlaster..... combines freezing with penetrating oil
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Old 10-16-18, 06:29 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Here's a tool that might help:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Also get as many factors in your favor as possible: soak with Kroil or PB Blaster for at least a week, apply heat, and make absolutely certain* you are turning the correct direction.

*A recent poster here said "pretty sure" about thread direction but this is binary: either 100% right or 100% wrong. You can guess which.
In my view the good news about thread direction on the adjustable cup is that you only need to get it moving slightly in either direction, then you can figure out which direction will actually remove the cup.
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Old 10-16-18, 07:35 PM
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You can try cutting a slot all the way through the face with a cut-off wheel on a dremel, and grab it with a thick bit of steel plate in a vise.

As for the direction, isn't every NDS BB thread right hand?
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Old 10-18-18, 06:38 PM
  #12  
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The ATF/Acetone mix is your best bet. Squirt some on a couple times a day and rap it a few times with a ball peen hammer. After a couple of days use an angle grinder to cut some slots on the face and use a hammer and cold chisle to try busting it lose.
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Old 10-21-18, 04:23 PM
  #13  
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Dremel tool is the way to go. Don't go too deep. Have done several. Be patient, go slow. Your patience will be rewarded.
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Old 10-21-18, 04:37 PM
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Old 10-21-18, 04:59 PM
  #15  
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Grind 2 flats on the exposed adj cup, then try a big-ass pipe wrench.
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Old 10-21-18, 05:54 PM
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If the pin spanner holes are already gone this won't be helpful, but options/tools exist for that.

I have a bolt on adjustable cup remover. It's a socket tool with 6 pins to engage all the holes, provided the cup has 6 holes. On the outside is a collar that secures it in place using the threads the lockring would have occupied. Royce style bottom bracket socket tools also have 6 pins to keep them from slipping.
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Old 10-22-18, 11:00 AM
  #17  
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If the bike is USED it is possible (unlikely, but possible) that the previous owner has had issues with the adjustable cup coming loose and has assembled it with a couple of drops of blue (removable strength) Locktite.

If this is the case, you are going to need some heat to soften it. Not too much heat... In rare instances where hand tools do not work because of excessive engagement length, apply localized heat to approximately 482F (250C). Disassemble while hot.
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Old 10-25-18, 07:22 AM
  #18  
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I'd try getting the lock ring off first. I have a pair of the old,, VAR Lock ring Pliers. I had 2 bikes from the 1980's with frozen adjustable cups. The fixed cups came out rather easy. Both adj. cups had a single "notch" straight across them. I took the fixed cup wrench & placed the edge of it. Straight across the slot & hammered that loose. Good Luck,,
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Old 10-29-18, 11:11 AM
  #19  
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Still no luck with the adjustable cup.

I followed Saint Sheldon's instructions and made a remover out of a 5/8" bolt , lock washers, and a nut that clamps the cup , soaked the threads in liquid wrench for a week, heated the bottom bracket with a butane torch , wrenched on the puller with a large wrench. and tried tapping the pin holes with a drift punch , all to no effect except to break the end off the punch . Yesterday I cut a slot in the face of the cup with a diamond blade hack saw then tried to cut through the inside face of the cup with a metal blade and a sawzall. The steel of the cup just dulled the sawzall blade.
I am wondering if the PO used red Loctite on those threads.

I think the only way this sucker is coming out is if I can find a sawzall blade that is diamond coated to finally saw through the cup. If I can make at least 2 cuts in it I can probably tap the threads from the outside to break them loose.
As Bugs Bunny always said:

"Of course you know This means war"
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Old 10-29-18, 11:52 AM
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...you need quite a bit of heat on a BB shell/cup combination. I use MAPP gas, which is also what I use to solder join copper plumbing. Even red Loctite will give up if you get it hot enough. And Liquid Wrench is not the best penetrating oil, by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 10-29-18, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by capnjonny View Post
I am working on a Shogun Alpine GT steel frame trying to finish disassembly so I can do an overhaul.
I have removed the drive side bottom bracket cup and the crank spindle but the adjustable cup won't budge.
Using a pin wrench just broke off the pins.
Using a punch in the pin holes just ruined the holes .
A (left hand) pedal spindle inserted through the hole in the cup and tightened as much as we could to a Forged left handed thread crank arm to act as a wrench just turns against the cup no mater how much we tighten it.
Liquid wrench left to soak a couple days didn't do anything.

Any other suggestions? heat? saw through the threads from the inside?
Sounds like you've tried most things already. Cutting (slicing) it would be the next strategy. I have not personally done this, but it does work. Do it with care obviously.
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Old 10-29-18, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by capnjonny View Post
Still no luck with the adjustable cup.

I followed Saint Sheldon's instructions and made a remover out of a 5/8" bolt , lock washers, and a nut that clamps the cup , soaked the threads in liquid wrench for a week, heated the bottom bracket with a butane torch , wrenched on the puller with a large wrench. and tried tapping the pin holes with a drift punch , all to no effect except to break the end off the punch . Yesterday I cut a slot in the face of the cup with a diamond blade hack saw then tried to cut through the inside face of the cup with a metal blade and a sawzall. The steel of the cup just dulled the sawzall blade.
I am wondering if the PO used red Loctite on those threads.

I think the only way this sucker is coming out is if I can find a sawzall blade that is diamond coated to finally saw through the cup. If I can make at least 2 cuts in it I can probably tap the threads from the outside to break them loose.
As Bugs Bunny always said:

"Of course you know This means war"
I just used the sheldon method yesterday on a adjustable side BB I was having problem removing the lock ring on.

You were using 2 wrenches (one a socket for inside the bottom bracket) correct?

For an adjustable cup, you should be tightening the nut on the inside of the bb while holding the head of the bolt on the outside. for a really tough on you might need a helper and a breaker bar
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Old 10-29-18, 01:13 PM
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Still not out?
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Old 10-29-18, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by capnjonny View Post
Still no luck with the adjustable cup.

I followed Saint Sheldon's instructions and made a remover out of a 5/8" bolt , lock washers, and a nut that clamps the cup , soaked the threads in liquid wrench for a week, heated the bottom bracket with a butane torch , wrenched on the puller with a large wrench. and tried tapping the pin holes with a drift punch , all to no effect except to break the end off the punch . Yesterday I cut a slot in the face of the cup with a diamond blade hack saw then tried to cut through the inside face of the cup with a metal blade and a sawzall. The steel of the cup just dulled the sawzall blade.
I am wondering if the PO used red Loctite on those threads.

I think the only way this sucker is coming out is if I can find a sawzall blade that is diamond coated to finally saw through the cup. If I can make at least 2 cuts in it I can probably tap the threads from the outside to break them loose.
As Bugs Bunny always said:

"Of course you know This means war"
I agree that a penetrating oil like PB Blaster might help and a little more heat. At my charity shop I get some of the rustious heaps one has ever seen as all these bike live in the rain. Yes a long breaker bar (25" will help the most stubborn cups with sheldon browns trick. I wish I was near you to give you a hand
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Old 10-29-18, 04:55 PM
  #25  
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adjustable cup you missed that data point it's the one on the left side,
all are right hand thread on that side of th BB . non drive side
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