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2nd broken spoke in less than 200 miles

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2nd broken spoke in less than 200 miles

Old 10-25-18, 08:39 AM
  #1  
pennpaul
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2nd broken spoke in less than 200 miles

Another rear wheel spoke broke today on a ride. It's been less than 200 miles since the last broken spoke also on the rear. The first was a drive side spoke and today's was on the other side both at the hub. The wheels probably have between 1000-2000 miles on them.

So some more information. This is a 24 hole, 2x wheel on HED rims. They came stock with my Diamondback Haanjo Trail bike. I don't ride tubeless and they are inflated to 40psi. Most of riding is on the road, not gravel. I am a Clyde at 245lbs so I definitely think this is a weight related issue.

Now after 2 spokes, this wheel is feeling like even more of a ticking time bomb.

I hate that this is a possibility, but am I looking at a new rear wheel? I'm thinking 32 hole, 3x is what I need to go to.

What do you think?
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Old 10-25-18, 09:07 AM
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I'd recommend having the whole wheel re-tensioned. Replacing single spokes can create uneven tension on others, commonly resulting in other spokes breaking. And if you decide to replace the wheel, I'd opt for more spokes and more crosses.
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Old 10-25-18, 09:13 AM
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you grasp the problem, wheel built with too few spokes ...
and perhaps you did little maintenance tension and truing , and let it go too long,

Part it out, maybe someone will the buy Rim for a front wheel build..

36 spoke is a safe choice for rear wheels under heavier riders ..





...

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-25-18 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 10-25-18, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by EdwinHeadwind View Post
I'd recommend having the whole wheel re-tensioned. Replacing single spokes can create uneven tension on others, commonly resulting in other spokes breaking. And if you decide to replace the wheel, I'd opt for more spokes and more crosses.
I agree. I would de-tension them, and then re-tension, or have a qualified person do it if you don't know how to do it. Of course getting rims with a higher spoke count is a good idea. Just be sure they are properly set up as well. If they are machine built, before using them, have a qualified mechanic de-tension them, and then re-tension the spokes.
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Old 10-25-18, 10:50 AM
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There are no absolutes with wheel/spoke life and rider weight but your combo certainly is at one end of the bell curve, the less durable and more heavily loaded end. What can be expected is more issues regardless of what service is done. Just a dozen years ago this type of wheel would have been considered an event only one for the typical athletic rider. To expect other today is, IMO, miss directed. Andy.(who knows he has brought up more then the op asked about).
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Old 10-25-18, 11:04 AM
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If you want to try to keep this wheel have the drive side spokes tensioned to at least 130Kg.
Having said that, I would forget about the low spoke count and go for 36 double butted spokes for your weight. Your weight plus the weight of the bike and accessories is over 265 pounds so saving a pound on an unreliable wheel makes no sense.
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Old 10-25-18, 11:04 AM
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Diamondback, is one of those brands,
detached from the company that made the reputation ,
and had the name sold..

Otherwise OK with the wheels ?

You may consider buying a whole new set of spokes, perhaps,? name brands; like DT, Sapim ..
as the original ones were chosen for lowest cost , bought by the many thousands,

and machine assembled and tensioned which is very common for bike assembly factories..
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Old 10-25-18, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
This is a 24 hole, 2x wheel

I am a Clyde at 245lbs


I hate that this is a possibility, but am I looking at a new rear wheel? I'm thinking 32 hole, 3x is what I need to go to.

What do you think?

I agree. HED is a good rim, but 24 is too few spokes, even for an anorexic. I have one wheelset with 28 spokes (and a HED Belgium Plus rim) and another with 32 spokes (which I prefer). I'm about 45 to 50 lbs lighter than you.

Get Novemberwheels (or comparable) to hand-build you a set of wheels tailored for someone with your weight and riding style. Keep them if you upgrade your bike.
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Old 10-25-18, 11:21 AM
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end of spoke and wheel life. get a new wheel with more spokes for longer service interval
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Old 10-25-18, 05:54 PM
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Before you do anything else...

Put the wheel in a truing stand, or flip bike over.

Put on leather work gloves.....grab parallel spokes on both sides simultaneously...
...squeeze super duper hard it should hurt....for a full rotation. [stress relieving]

If another spoke break while doing this...this will be proof that a complete rebuild is warranted.

If you do rebuild on this rim staying at 24h, you want drive side tension at about 116-120kgf....strongly recommened DT Swiss 14/15/14 double butted. or 13/15/14 triple butted.

Else, go for a higher count 28/32/36 hole wheel.

=8-)
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Old 10-25-18, 06:51 PM
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Don't waste another dime on the rear wheel. You are too big for the thing. I am a clyde as well and cannot ride anything with less than 32 spokes, 3 cross. The rim and hub quality also has a big affect on durability. The final solution for my son who is a 230 pound 25 year old and road races is a DT Swiss 350 hub with steel cassette body, DT 2.0 spokes laced to the HED Belgium rim. 32 spokes and built by a guy on his team who is an excellent wheel builder.
He put it into use this past spring and has had zero issues thus far, over 5000 miles of training and racing. The wheel I built for him 5 years ago is the same hub and spoke combo, but with a Velocity Deep V rim. That served as his rear wheel on the race bike for 4 years, and is now on the commuter bike. Zero issues thus far and has at least 20 thousand miles on it.

My personal rear wheel is an old Campy Nuovo Record hub spaced to 130mm so that the rim is now centered on the axle.36 2.0 DT spokes paired to a Mavic Open Sport rim. Equal spoke length and tension per side and it has been flawless for 2000 miles. Just put this one in service this past May. I weigh 230.

Buy quality parts, have an experienced wheel man build it and the troubles will be gone for a good spell.
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Old 10-26-18, 12:28 AM
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I typically stay away from anything less than 32 holes. Less spokes in the end means less durability. Factory non-handmade wheels are abit of a gamble. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they exhibit problems fairly quickly. If you do not intend to build your own wheels, an alternative could be to have someone knowledgable have look at any new wheels you buy.

In case you are interested in wheel building, here is a great resource:

Wheels
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Old 10-26-18, 02:07 AM
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I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. The DB website says they are 24h wheels but as I started to go about detensioning the spokes, I started counting. 28 spokes. What makes sense to me to do is back off all the tension on the spokes then tighten the nipple back with just my fingers until they just "grab" the spoke and I would need to switch to a wrench. Then I'm going to do 2 revs with the wrench and start checking for true and pinging the spokes to listen for even tension.

Anyway, I am going to do what I can with this wheel with what I've got--a spoke wrench and an upside bike for a truing stand. I am an vid DIYer, but there's just too much stuff to acquire to build a proper set of wheels and there seems to be a billion possible combinations of hub/spoke/rim/etc. For now I just need a rideable set of wheels until I get new ones. I sent emails to Velocity Cycles and Universal Cycles (are they good?) for a set of wheels for a Clyde that will fit my bike. I wish the Vuelta Corsas would work for my bike, but they don't.

Paul

Last edited by pennpaul; 10-26-18 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 10-26-18, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
I sent emails to Velocity Cycles and Universal Cycles (are they good?) for a set of wheels
I've had several good experiences with Universal Cycles. Fast shipping, no games.
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Old 10-26-18, 10:02 AM
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My LBS (typical) gets Built Wheels from their Distributors..
They build wheels from any parts they carry
priced at wholesale , so a wheel will cost less than the sum of its parts
at retail ..

and walk in buyers pay no shipping, and get a few truing tune ups
after you have been riding them a while..





....
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Old 10-27-18, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. The DB website says they are 24h wheels but as I started to go about detensioning the spokes, I started counting. 28 spokes. What makes sense to me to do is back off all the tension on the spokes then tighten the nipple back with just my fingers until they just "grab" the spoke and I would need to switch to a wrench. Then I'm going to do 2 revs with the wrench and start checking for true and pinging the spokes to listen for even tension.

Anyway, I am going to do what I can with this wheel with what I've got--a spoke wrench and an upside bike for a truing stand. I am an vid DIYer, but there's just too much stuff to acquire to build a proper set of wheels and there seems to be a billion possible combinations of hub/spoke/rim/etc. For now I just need a rideable set of wheels until I get new ones. I sent emails to Velocity Cycles and Universal Cycles (are they good?) for a set of wheels for a Clyde that will fit my bike. I wish the Vuelta Corsas would work for my bike, but they don't.

Paul
Did you do the test I spelled out earlier?

Seriously, if after doing a very very very hard squeeze of parallel spoke for 1-2 rotations results in another broken spoke, you are wasting your time fixing the wheel.

=8-|
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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 10-27-18, 11:17 AM
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When someone asks us this in our shop(which is actually pretty often) we recommend a custom order wheel from Quality Bike(common distributor) with Sun Rhynolite 32 or 36h rims and 14ga spokes. Good enough for freeriding but not heavy(not that exceptional light weight is desirable here). Never seen a broken spoke with that combination and very economical to have done.
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Old 10-27-18, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Did you do the test I spelled out earlier?

Seriously, if after doing a very very very hard squeeze of parallel spoke for 1-2 rotations results in another broken spoke, you are wasting your time fixing the wheel.

=8-|
Yes, I did that after I retensioned the wheel--no broken spokes. I also went on a 30 miler today with 3800ft of climbing, an equal amount of downhill, and a little bit of gravel. No trouble.

That being said, I've got feelers out to 3 wheelbuilders and I'm pulling the trigger on a new wheelset Monday. I just need this current wheel to last until the new ones are delivered.
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