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I can rarely get a Panaracer Pasela tire to seat without a "hop"

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I can rarely get a Panaracer Pasela tire to seat without a "hop"

Old 11-08-18, 04:00 PM
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TallRider
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I can rarely get a Panaracer Pasela tire to seat without a "hop"

I generally like Panaracer Pasela tires - low price, and fairly supple for the price point. I've used 700c * 28mm Paselas for years, and during that time have almost never been able to get them to seat without a hop. I imagine this results from the (steel) bead being just slightly too small, or perhaps from cheaper quality control in the manufacturing process, or the way the casing overlaps.

The hop is similarly noticeable on a 38mm tire that I just bought. Tire inflated to 60 PSI in the attached video. Now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't tried inflating it up to 90 and then dropping it back down. The hop is significant, although it may not be noticeable while riding for a tire with this much air.

Video: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ahn3fxbbgorfmNhZH5AbJ__48zVoAw

I've noticed this on different rims with internal widths from 13-18 mm, as well. Sun M13II, Sun CR18, H+Son TB14.

Most other tires, including Panaracer Gravelkings, seat cleanly every time.
I always try multiple attempts at re-seating, inflating, deflating, unsticking the tire from the rim hook all the way around, and re-inflating. I've never tried detergent.

I'm curious whether this is just a cost-of-use with Paselas, or if there are better methods to get those tires to seat properly.

Whatever the reason, I'm curious how people get their Paselas to seat correctly, if anyone who's noticed this issue has been successful in rectifying it.
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Old 11-08-18, 04:23 PM
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The two go to methods are the over inflate then bleed down or to use tire seating pliers to pull up the bead.

But far better a problem to have a dip (and not what I would call a hop) then a lack of bead seating (what I do call a hop). Andy
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Old 11-08-18, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
The two go to methods are the over inflate then bleed down or to use tire seating pliers to pull up the bead.
But far better a problem to have a dip (and not what I would call a hop) then a lack of bead seating (what I do call a hop). Andy
Good point, this is indeed a dip, not a hop.
I realized after posting this that I hadn't tried overinflating. This may be less effective as tires get fatter (and max pressures aren't as high).

Do you know what makes some tires more prone to a dip?
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Old 11-08-18, 06:18 PM
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I use the exact same tire: 700c x 28mm wire bead. I have not had any hop problems. I've mounted them on Super Champion Mod 58, the Rigida knockoff of the Super Champion Gentleman and a Velo Orange Raid rims. The tires will pop into place, as I inflate the tire to more than 60 psi. One possibility is that wide rim tape on your rim is preventing the tire to seat properly.

I notice that Schwalbe recommends that 28 mm tires be mounted on 15C to 19C rims. N.B. the SC rims were old style without a hook. 13C rims are recommended for 18 to 25 mm tires.

Also, the tread in the video did not resemble the tread on the Panaracer Pasela that I use. Perhaps, if you filmed the label side I'd be convinced that it's really a Pasela with a wire bead.
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Old 11-08-18, 06:52 PM
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Well, earlier this week, I remounted a set of newish 630x28 Paselas on Wolber Super Champion Gentlemen GTA 27" rims. Had just a tiny bit of struggle with one of them that didn't seem to want to seat correctly upon initial inflation. I backed off and used my more patient method of gradual inflation with hands on bead manipulation at each step. I start with 10 psi then go around the rim and correct anything that doesn't look right. Then repeat at 20 psi, then again at 30 psi. If I see no issues at that point, I do a full inflation. Pay attention to the witness line molded into the side of the tire.
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Old 11-08-18, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TallRider View Post
I realized after posting this that I hadn't tried overinflating. This may be less effective as tires get fatter (and max pressures aren't as high).
Paint some soapy water onto the bead before inflating the tire. The will allow the bead to more easily slip into place as the pressure increases.
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Old 11-08-18, 09:57 PM
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Perhaps going up in one tube width size might help?

I.e., 700 x 28c to a 700 x 35c tube...or something like that?

For example, I simply could not get my 700 x 25c RibMo's to seat properly with a 700 x 23/25c tube. So I switched to 700 x 28c/35c and voila, problem went away.

=8-
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Old 11-08-18, 10:15 PM
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If you insist on using these tires, you should make friends with someone who has a Park PTS-1 tire seating tool. It's a channel lock plier with tire-shaped jaws.
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Old 11-09-18, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
If you insist on using these tires, you should make friends with someone who has a Park PTS-1 tire seating tool. It's a channel lock plier with tire-shaped jaws.
That does seem to be the final solution. Hopefully an earlier one works.
There's a good chance that this won't be noticeable with a 38mm tire (although only measures 35) with a lot of air run at lower pressures, anyway.
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Old 11-09-18, 08:26 AM
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I have the same thing happen with my Paselas. I checked with my local shop and they said the same thing, with the same overpressurisation and bleeding solution. I have 23's so I pump up to 115 and bleed back down to 85. If the dip comes back with the bleed, I drop to 20 and "caress" the tire into place. Repeat as necessary.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:59 AM
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I have used Pasela 28s and 35s and Pasela TG 32s. I have never had a problem with getting them seated and perfectly round. I do generally overinflate my tires then bleed down to desired pressure, though, as years of working in shops has me conditioned to avoid wrestling with beads if at all possible.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:07 AM
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I have this problem only when first mounting a new Pasela folding bead. I generally first inflate to my desired pressure and then check to see if the bead is seated uniformly. Generally its not so I deflate to about 10 psi, then manipulate the bead all around to get it uniformly seated. I repeat in 10 psi steps until I get to my desired pressure. Even that sometimes doesn't get the bead seated uniformly. In that case, I ride for a few days, then deflate and re-inflate. That seems to always take care of the problem. I have not been able to answer whether the tires are just slightly undersized out of the box, or whether the rim strip hangs things up. Doubt it is an over-sized rim as it seems to happen on different rims. I still like the Pasela so I just deal with it for now (until all of a sudden I change to a different "better" tire).
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Old 11-09-18, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
If you insist on using these tires, you should make friends with someone who has a Park PTS-1 tire seating tool. It's a channel lock plier with tire-shaped jaws.
I have both the Park and the, no longer available, Bicycle Research tire seating pliers. For narrower tires I do like the Park version better. Their jaws are shaped to fit narrower tires very well and the grit tape in the jaws holds the casing very well, although do scrape the casing surfaces a bit (not to any demerit). For wide tires I find the Bicycle Research shape works better. The jaws are paddle like and flare apart giving space for the wider casings. But both work far better then any other rube Goldberg attempt that I have seen, tried or read about.

Ay work we see the need to use said tools a few times a week during the season. Not a lot as a percentage given the number of tire/tube installs/flats we deal with. But if you're the rider of a bike that does need a tire seating this capacity is worth a lot. We've seated many tires that were initially mounted by the customer and depending on who they are, where they bought their stuff and how much time it takes this service might be free or about half of a flat repair labor. Andy.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:40 AM
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I also wrestle the tire beads into place at a low pressure, and inflate gradually while I ensure the tire stays in place.
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Old 11-09-18, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TallRider View Post
Good point, this is indeed a dip, not a hop.
I realized after posting this that I hadn't tried overinflating. This may be less effective as tires get fatter (and max pressures aren't as high).

Do you know what makes some tires more prone to a dip?

I can see Panasonic using Daklo for their next ad campaign:

I said a Dip, Hop
Dippie to the Hippie
The Dip, Dip a hop, and you don't stop, a rock it out
Bubba to the bang bang boogie, boobie to the boogie
To the rhythm of the boogie the beat.
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