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Can I use a Shimano Cassette with smallest cog removed?

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Can I use a Shimano Cassette with smallest cog removed?

Old 11-10-18, 11:12 AM
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Can I use a Shimano Cassette with smallest cog removed?

I want to (need to) run a 36 large cog on a 7 speed hub. This is to get a climbing gear on a vintage bike with a 42 chainring. I can get & do this by buying a 36-12 9 speed cassette and removing one cog (it will fit on the hub) and as I'm using friction shifters I'll have no problems there. I've also sourced an MTB 9 speed derailleur with 36 cog capability.

I've done this trick (removing a cog) before with other cassettes but these cassettes all allowed me remove a middle cog, my problem now is the 36-12 cassettes I'm looking at have the largest 8 cogs pinned together and only the smallest cog separates. This smallest cog has a rough side edge for the lockring to tighten against, if I remove it, then the lock ring will be tightened against the next cog which has a smooth side. Will this give me any problems in use? Say, by allowing the lockring to loosen?

I've looked at other options to obtain the climbing gear ratio, but my bike is old, using a threadless BB, the crankset will not let me fit a smaller chainring, and I don't want to mess with that area of the bike as it will probably involve removing the BB and fitting a longer one and that could all be somewhat expensive (especially if it involves some trial and error).
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Old 11-10-18, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AlanC8
This smallest cog has a rough side edge for the lockring to tighten against, if I remove it, then the lock ring will be tightened against the next cog which has a smooth side. Will this give me any problems in use? Say, by allowing the lockring to loosen?
No problems as long as the spacers are in place and it's tightened to roughly the recommended torque. I've done this with several cassettes for thousands of miles and no problems at all.
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Old 11-10-18, 12:09 PM
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Sight unseen? older cassettes top cog screws on , holding the rest on .
newer type lockring and top cog interface knurling keeps the lockring from loosening,

so NO.

2nd smallest might be the one to omit ..

No I have not tested doing this for you..



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Old 11-10-18, 12:27 PM
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I rearrange cassettes quite a bit, but always use an intended small cog as the smallest cog.
Might be better to grind off the rivets (they are often not rivets but turn out to be small hex head scrws) and remove the #2 position cog, then install.
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Old 11-10-18, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank
No problems as long as the spacers are in place and it's tightened to roughly the recommended torque. I've done this with several cassettes for thousands of miles and no problems at all.
Crankycrank, Thankyou. I was going to chance it anyway (and check it frequently), but hearing from someone who has done it - helps settle the mind.

To everyone else who has responded - also Thankyou. I appreciate the considerations and opinions.

For what it is worth, I have an old 1980 Peugeot Super Competition racing bike, I currently run it with a lowest gear of 42x26 (7 speed Shimano Hub with an 8 speed cassette which has one middle cog removed). I have always had an ambition to cycle it up Mont Ventoux (Tom Simpson rode for Peugeot and died in the Tour de France riding up this mountain). I've done the climb twice when on holiday in France, once in 2016 on my modern titanium with a low gear of 30x25, and once in 2018 on a rented bike with a low of 34x32 - I was a lot fitter in 2016 and did i pretty quick, 2018 was a different story.

I reckon the 42x36 is not too far off 34x32 (I have worked it out exactly but it's not miles away), so I should be able to manage it. My plan for the cobbled cassette only needs to survive long enough for me to get in a few runs in the mountains of Wicklow (Ireland) to prove both the bike mods, my own strength, and the gearing ratio, and then for the final 21kms up the Classigue Route of Mont Ventoux (21km at avg gradient of 7% with an 11km stretch where the gradient never goes below 9% - but by now I know exactly what this means).

Thanks again guys - this forum is great.
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Old 11-10-18, 01:25 PM
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For Shimano cassettes, most (or all) 12T cogs are knurled and can be used in first position, although apparently the 12T lockring is different.

So, you may be able to take a cassette with 11T/12T, and leave off the 11T, and use a 12T lockring.

However, even so, many of the larger cassettes go 11T/13T, and may not be first position.

You want to use a simple riveted cogset, I think. It still might work. However, I would only do it if I had a 12T freehub.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html



The freehub on the left has a notch for the 11T sprocket. It would tend to leave the flat sprocket hanging out there with no support, and only held in place with the rivets.

The freehub body on the right doesn't have the 11T notch, and all sprockets should engage with the freehub body teeth.

Some of the larger IRD cassettes are designed with 11T/12T small sprockets. I'm not sure if the 12T is a true first position sprocket, but there are 12T first position sprockets available.
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Old 11-10-18, 03:26 PM
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I have removed the smallest knurled cog and had no problems. Thousands of miles zero issues.
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Old 11-11-18, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
newer type lockring and top cog interface knurling keeps the lockring from loosening,

so NO.
I suspected from the start that the knurling there is redundant overkill since there's basically nothing happening to loosen the lockring, except perhaps some very minor precession to the tune of the radial slop of the cassette on the splines. The 40Nm spec is easily enough to lock that puppy solid enough to prevent loosening in the absence of knurling, which I've verified both on mix'n'matched Shimano cassettes, and on my ti/al billet cassette which has no knurling.
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