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bb spindle binding like

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Old 12-02-18, 04:41 PM
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bb spindle binding like

i was workung on sister's Pacific Cyclr cruiser bike with a unusual 70 mm BB cup n cone style. it was rough.., like gargabge. i pull it out n cleaned it put new ball bearings, new grease, but still feels rough...so I ordeted a UN55 73mm and a 1.5 mm shim. this is cartrodge style...good stuff.

i got the UN55, but after i screw the right side all the way into the Bb shell, the spindle wont spin smooth, like binding. but as soon as i back out 1 turn, it spin smooth.

i suspect there is a problem woth the squareness of the BB shell face. but it looks very straight n square...like normal.

wat u think?

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Old 12-02-18, 09:17 PM
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Sure, maybe, I'd have to take a look at it. I suppose a crooked shell face could unevenly load the bearing so that it will feel rough. But do know that this happens to a degree anytime you tighten down a BB, even with a nice square face.

So if the face was crooked then then entire BB unit would try to follow the face's angle. just as the RH flange starts to seat against the face the BB will also try cocking. Look carefully at the LH side and note if that side shifts a tad. Also it might be visible, the amount of face angle WRT that flange. Stop threading the unit in just before the flange contacts the face and inspect the gap all the way around. Andy
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Old 12-03-18, 07:49 AM
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Trying to understand what you are saying here, maybe I'm mis-reading it: - so as I see read it -
You have pulled off the crank, taken the old one out screwed in the new one to the shoulder & pitched it up no over tight, in that situation the left side (non chain drive side) is sitting in fresh air & the unit turns smoothly - correct ?
Then you screw in the the retaining cup (left side) all the way & it binds up ?
if so you have something wrong on your spacing ? back it out bit by bit see if it runs smooth.
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Old 12-03-18, 10:28 AM
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I took the OP as saying that he didn't yet install the LH retaining sleeve (cup by most). With the BB unit in the shell and not yet tight it spun fine. Then with only tightening the BB, it's flange/shoulder butted up against the BB face, the spin is rough. He doesn't mention the LH side at all. Andy
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Old 12-03-18, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
I took the OP as saying that he didn't yet install the LH retaining sleeve (cup by most). With the BB unit in the shell and not yet tight it spun fine. Then with only tightening the BB, it's flange/shoulder butted up against the BB face, the spin is rough. He doesn't mention the LH side at all. Andy
Andrew is correct.
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Old 12-03-18, 10:42 AM
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I did one additional test; I tighten the LH side first:

I screw the UN55's RH (no spacer) all the way in until the flange touch the BB shell face, and then back out the RH side a few turns; then I screw the LH cup (with 1.5mm spacer) all the way in. (The LH cup has a flange that butt up against the BB face.)
Then, I screw the RH into the BB as much as I can.
So the RH's flange is not touching the BB shell face.
This way of installing the BB has less binding feel, than the way I describe in the 1st post. But I sense there is still a little bit of binding.
I don't have the warm and fuzzy feeling about this way ...so last night I put the original gritty cup-n-cone BB back into the bike.

I wonder if this UN55 has been damaged by my previous attempts.

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Old 12-03-18, 12:19 PM
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As I mentioned I see this often enough. Actually is more evident the other way around. You're servicing a bike and the BB is quite rumbly (meaning both rough bearings and also a lack of lube any longer). You get the OK to replace the BB and do so. Of course you save the old for the customer to see, like what car repair shops used to do to show they really did replace the hidden parts. But on removal the old BB becomes far smoother in it's spin. After the 10th or 20th time this happens you begin to formulate the thought that some preload is acting on the bearings when the BB is fully installed/tightly that isn't when it's in your hands.

Some might yell "foul", when this happens to a new BB just installed (the tightening up of the spin) it means that the BB was badly made. And in a perfect world that might be a agreeable claim. But we live in a non adjustable, non serviceable and disposal world when it comes to bike bearings (for the most part and certainly with BBs). For these replacements to cost so little, for the ease of installing, for the really large production numbers this is what I consider to be the cost of doing this. There's a lot of bearing tightness, too much preload, minimal lube, on so many brand new bikes that no one (well most) cares about when they buy that bike and brag about the deal they got to their buddies.

Like my opening statement on my first reply. I'd have to be there and handle the questionable BB (and that bike's shell) to really make any claim of things not being acceptable. I'm just adding my experience in dealing with doing dozens of BB replacements a year, for a lot of years. Andy
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Old 12-04-18, 08:23 AM
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I've encountered this before. Retapping the BB shell fixed it. You probably want to reface at the same time.
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Old 12-04-18, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
I've encountered this before. Retapping the BB shell fixed it. You probably want to reface at the same time.
How much do LBS usually charge to retap and reface?
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Old 12-04-18, 10:37 AM
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If the shell is empty of the BB unit anywhere from $20 to $50 is typical. Remember they are using a many hundred dollar wear prone tool that can cause damage if mishandled. Andy
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Old 12-04-18, 01:46 PM
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Now I think about it some more...how do you "retap" a thread?

Isn't it once you tap it once, you cut away the metal...how can you recut something that's already cut?
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Old 12-04-18, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Now I think about it some more...how do you "retap" a thread?

Isn't it once you tap it once, you cut away the metal...how can you recut something that's already cut?
add metal or follow the tracks
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Old 12-05-18, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
How much do LBS usually charge to retap and reface?
Last time I had it done (2 years ago) I paid $15, but that was the "friend rate"

Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Now I think about it some more...how do you "retap" a thread?

Isn't it once you tap it once, you cut away the metal...how can you recut something that's already cut?
What you are doing is cleaning up the existing threads as well as correcting any imperfections in the shell. On my last occasion, the BB shell was just very, very slightly oval. It would accept some cups, but would not accept the new cartridge without binding up. We're talking imperfections in the order of thousandths of an inch here. Yes, you cut away a bit more metal, but only that which is interfering with your installation.

Good luck to you.
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Old 01-04-19, 09:36 AM
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As an avid diy'er, I went searching for a BB thread tool. And I found this on Ebay Hong Kong, brand new shipped 30-day for under $100...what do you think?

Does it look like a descent quality tool?


P.s. My BB shell is on a lugged frame, if that makes any difference.





Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
Last time I had it done (2 years ago) I paid $15, but that was the "friend rate"
What you are doing is cleaning up the existing threads as well as correcting any imperfections in the shell. On my last occasion, the BB shell was just very, very slightly oval. It would accept some cups, but would not accept the new cartridge without binding up. We're talking imperfections in the order of thousandths of an inch here. Yes, you cut away a bit more metal, but only that which is interfering with your installation.

Good luck to you.
Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
add metal or follow the tracks
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
If the shell is empty of the BB unit anywhere from $20 to $50 is typical. Remember they are using a many hundred dollar wear prone tool that can cause damage if mishandled. Andy

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Old 01-04-19, 11:14 AM
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The big issue with many low cost BB tap tools is the under designed pilot shaft. between the large clearance between the shaft and it's mating hole and the shaft's small diameter not resisting the bending forces that non coaxial threading can produce the amount of corrective cutting can be lacking.

But I'm sure it will do better then nothing, assuming correct use. Andy
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Old 01-04-19, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
As an avid diy'er, I went searching for a BB thread tool. And I found this on Ebay Hong Kong, brand new shipped 30-day for under $100...what do you think?

Does it look like a descent quality tool?


P.s. My BB shell is on a lugged frame, if that makes any difference.

...who makes it ? Some of the ones sold in Europe under the Cyclo/Cyclus branding are good tools and were running about that price when I bought some 5-8 years ago. The Park one is a wonderful tool, but a little pricey for the occasional user. The Cyclo/Cyclus ones work very well, and the pilot shaft is machined to a precision slip fit.
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Old 01-04-19, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...who makes it ? Some of the ones sold in Europe under the Cyclo/Cyclus branding are good tools and were running about that price when I bought some 5-8 years ago. The Park one is a wonderful tool, but a little pricey for the occasional user. The Cyclo/Cyclus ones work very well, and the pilot shaft is machined to a precision slip fit.
Here is the link...
https://www.ebay.com/i/272661505364?chn=ps&var=571791339832

It's brand-less ...it's coming out of China most likely.
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Old 01-04-19, 11:52 AM
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...a lot of Asian tool quality has improved dramatically, but I can only speak for tools I've personally used, like the Park and Cyclus. BTW, if your problem is because of an ovalized BB shell (and it might be on this level of bike), running a tap set through it will not fix this problem. The taps only expand out the shell while you're pushing them through so it's round, then when you remove them, the shell goes back to the way it was.

Before you buy an expensive tool, take a vernier or digital caliper and measure across the inside diameters of your BB shell on both sides in several directions. If the measurements are not the same in all directions, suspect an ovalized BB shell. There's not much you can do about it except to install your new cartridge and ride the bike as is.

I think they get distorted in the factory assembly process, or maybe from the heat of welding. The first time I ran into this at the bike co-op, it took me a while to figure out what was going on.
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Old 01-04-19, 02:08 PM
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Can't tell much about metallurgy from a photo. Maybe invest in known-good cutters/chasers and diy the rest. BTW, nitriding on hand operated tools adds no value (and maybe obscures low quality).

Or, maybe make a thread chaser from a worn-out BB with hardened steel threads.
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Old 01-04-19, 02:51 PM
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Yes it may work, but it's a hundred bucks for unknown quality. I do understand the DIY thing (and have plenty of tools to show for it); however this is something you will probably only use 3-4 times in your lifetime so there is not a lot of bang for buck here (and maybe less if the tool is sub-standard in quality). My vote is to just take your frame to a shop that has the right professional grade tools.

Another thing is that your BB shell may need facing, which the Ebay tool will not do.

But ... if you do go ahead and purchase the tool, please post a review.
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Old 01-04-19, 03:02 PM
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Reality check: "Pacific Cyclr cruiser."

Frame made from aluminum or iron?
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Old 01-04-19, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Reality check: "Pacific Cyclr cruiser."

Frame made from aluminum or iron?
Hi-ten steel most likely. I think this thing has a very cool frame that is retro flavor. It's fully lugged...which is rare nowaday.
The design is a close copy of English Roadster. There's full chain cover and even braze-on bolts for Euro-style frame locks.
The full fabric chain cover is awesome for keeping your pants clean or no more unwanted tatoos.
And it is relatively light weight.

It's a solid bike...except for this BB shell issue.

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Old 01-04-19, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
As an avid diy'er, I went searching for a BB thread tool. And I found this on Ebay Hong Kong, brand new shipped 30-day for under $100...what do you think?

Does it look like a descent quality tool?


P.s. My BB shell is on a lugged frame, if that makes any difference.


I've got that exact tool and I like it. Just used it this week on a frame that had been painted.


Bought from this seller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Bottom...item3f7be46554
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Old 01-08-19, 01:21 PM
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l went to the best LBS. and the mech say he cannot just retap the thread. i saw the tap tool in his drawer. i explain to him to run it thru the thread to fix the imperfection that is casing the misalignment. but he wouldnt do it. he said the right way is to fill the thread with new metal and then recut the threads new. he said he does not have the ability to do that.

the mech is young...i wonder if i should look for a mom-n-pop store with a old timer mech with more experience with these things.



Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
If the
shell is empty of the BB unit anywhere from $20 to $50 is typical. Remember they are using a many hundred dollar wear prone tool that can cause damage if mishandled. Andy
Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
I've encountered this before. Retapping the BB shell fixed it. You probably want to reface at the same time.
Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
add metal or follow the tracks

Last edited by mtb_addict; 01-08-19 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:48 PM
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Ygwypf

The whole BB shell may be out of whack relative to the rest of the frame .. and at that price point no QC, they shipped it anyhow..
so as to fulfill the number shipped in the contract..

will the dealer that sold give you a refund?
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