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Tire and inner tube put in wrong?

Old 12-18-18, 05:16 PM
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Tire and inner tube put in wrong?

Hi folks,


Not having done this before, I was congratulating myself on installing new inner tubes and tires on my wife's 1970's Schwinn.


When I put back the fenders, I noticed that the back tire was rubbing against the screw that holds the rear reflector to the bottom of the fender.


Looking at it a bit more, I can see that the "thin" part of the tire is not showing the "line". The "line" being an embossed part of the tire that shows the tire is evenly installed on the rim.


Not quite sure what is going on here but thought I'd ask before taking off the tire and re-doing.


Thanks for any advice.
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Old 12-18-18, 05:43 PM
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Spin the tire. Does that line appear and disappear? If so, the tire isn't seated evenly on the shelf of the rim. Let out all the air, go around the wheel squeezing the tire in so it drops into the narrow center portion of the rim, reinflate to say 20psi and check again. DOn't pump up fully until the tire passes that test. (There are lots of scenarios where my advice does not work. I"m not the best at writing encyclopedias, so go on-line or ask here if this doesn't work.)

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Old 12-18-18, 07:24 PM
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I let out ALMOST all the air.
Enough to "move" the bead with a bit of effort, but keep the bead in place where it should.
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Old 12-18-18, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for the replies!

Yes, the problem is approx 1/4 of the tire is not seated on that shelf. It just goes all the way into the rim. I've tried squeezing the tire with most of the air out - but it just doesn't want to move out of the trough.

I have vague memories of someone bouncing an inflated bicycle wheel up and down on the ground, round and around, "to seat the tire". I'll try that tomorrow.

Update: Oh, I may have that all wrong - looks like I need to get all the tire deep into the rim, rather than onto the shoulder. Let me re-try!

Last edited by Octavius; 12-18-18 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Re-read replies
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Old 12-18-18, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
Yes, the problem is approx 1/4 of the tire is not seated on that shelf. It just goes all the way into the rim. I've tried squeezing the tire with most of the air out - but it just doesn't want to move out of the trough.
Mix a little dish detergent in some water and swab it onto the tire bead before inflating. That will make it easier for the bead to pop into place as you inflate the tire.
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Old 12-18-18, 09:07 PM
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Are you 100% certain that you have the correct size tire? Schwinn had some oddball sizes BITD. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#fraction
As I recall finding the correct tires for a Schwinn I rebuilt for a friend was not trivial.
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Old 12-18-18, 09:54 PM
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That Schwinn most likely has a rim with no tire bead hook. Meaning that the rim's flange is smooth on it's inside surface, where the tire fits. Most all modern rims have a lip at hook at the top of the flange to better grip/lock the tire's bead onto the rim. With a "hookless" rim the tire's fit is somewhat more tenuous. The tire's bead/edge can fit deeper or shallower around the rim more easily then with hook edged rims. Manipulating the amount of tire/rim overlap is the key. Some tire and rim combos have a looser fit then others. There are special pliers that help pulling out a tight fitting tire. Many have used toe clip straps to hold a section of a tire deeper into the rim.

And as mentioned Schwinn did have a number of rim/tires which have labels that confuse many as to the specific tire replacement size. Andy
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Old 12-19-18, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
Thanks for the replies!

Yes, the problem is approx 1/4 of the tire is not seated on that shelf. It just goes all the way into the rim. I've tried squeezing the tire with most of the air out - but it just doesn't want to move out of the trough.

I have vague memories of someone bouncing an inflated bicycle wheel up and down on the ground, round and around, "to seat the tire". I'll try that tomorrow.

Update: Oh, I may have that all wrong - looks like I need to get all the tire deep into the rim, rather than onto the shoulder. Let me re-try!
I just replaced some tires on a 1976 Schwinn Breeze, and it took numerous attempts to get the tires to seat properly, inflating then checking seating, then deflating and repositioning, etc. The Schwinn S-6 rims have a very specific tire-size requirement, 597mm, so be sure that your replacement tires are the same. If they're 590mm, you probably had a heck of a time getting them on, and if they went on without a lot of trouble you probably have the correct 597mm size.

I'm curious though, because the Schwinn bikes with fenders have a fender stay that mounts to the axle and somewhat prevents you from changing the clearance between the tire and the fender, so you should never have a problem with tire rub at the rear of the fender. The tires you ordered, do they show a size marking of [26" x 1 3/8" x 1 1/4" (37-597 ISO)] ?

These are what I used, and they fit properly with no fender clearance issue.
​​​​​​https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...8x1-1-4-37-597
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Old 12-19-18, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jj1091 View Post
I just replaced some tires on a 1976 Schwinn Breeze, and it took numerous attempts to get the tires to seat properly, inflating then checking seating, then deflating and repositioning, etc. The Schwinn S-6 rims have a very specific tire-size requirement, 597mm, so be sure that your replacement tires are the same. If they're 590mm, you probably had a heck of a time getting them on, and if they went on without a lot of trouble you probably have the correct 597mm size.

I'm curious though, because the Schwinn bikes with fenders have a fender stay that mounts to the axle and somewhat prevents you from changing the clearance between the tire and the fender, so you should never have a problem with tire rub at the rear of the fender. The tires you ordered, do they show a size marking of [26" x 1 3/8" x 1 1/4" (37-597 ISO)] ?

These are what I used, and they fit properly with no fender clearance issue.
​​​​​​https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...8x1-1-4-37-597
There's at least one situation where an axle mounter fender (brace) can have tire rub, even with the "correct" tire size and properly seated tire. It's when the rear section of the fender (and this applies to both ft and rear) has been pushed in. Not uncommon on rear fenders as pushing on the back of the bike when parking, storing the bike is so frequent, Then if the bike was ever wheelied up onto the rear wheel too far the fender will contact the ground, like when some people walk their bike about on it's rear wheel. The last common way to crush in the fender is when transporting in a car. If the tailgate is closed on the rear fender it, again, can push in the fender.

One might think pushing in on the fender would be obvious, and to those who pay attention it is. But I've seen dozens of cases where this is the case, the fender brace screw attaching the fender to the brace (or the rear reflector to the fender) grazes the tire. Almost all are classic all metal fenders, many attached at the axle. But this is simple blacksmithy to fix.

BTW do we know what size tires the OP's bike has yet? I just looked back on the posts and don't see a size description by the OP. Andy
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Old 12-21-18, 09:33 AM
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Hi folks,

Thanks for the replies!

Mike, yes, the tire size is correct for this bike: 26" x 1 3/8" x 1 1/4" (37-597 ISO)

I'll post a video after I've written some more posts.

I tried John's suggestion of soapy water and that did help somewhat but not enough to fully seat the tire - there is a region where it doesn't want to come out fully - where the tire size is embossed.

Then I tried blowing it up from 30 to 60 psi - that didn't help and made matters worse with respect to the rubbing. I think Andy is right about the fender being bent.
The front wheel (also with new inner tube and tire) has the same problem.

I think I'll try spraying pure silicon onto the bead next.
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Old 12-21-18, 07:00 PM
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Well, I tried the silicon - it worked for the front tire! As I was pumping it up I heard a big pop. Thought it was a puncture but it must have been the tire popping out to properly fill the rim - anyways, it looks good.

No luck with the back tire though - a section is still sitting too deep in the rim. I'll try again tomorrow.
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Old 12-21-18, 09:50 PM
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I'd use straight dish soap applied with a Q Tip or similar to both surfaces that are hanging up.
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Old 12-22-18, 04:13 AM
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Is the high spot of the tire adjacent to the valve stem? That's a common problem.

If so, you're lucky, here's a real simple solution:
1. Let almost all of the air out of the tire.
2. push the valve stem inward toward the hub as much as you can.
3. reinflate your tire to operating pressure.

It works because the thick part of the inner tube adjacent to the valve stem was caught under the tire beads and preventing them from seating against the rim.
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Old 12-22-18, 08:54 AM
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the opposite side, at that point, may be too high. push it deeper, then pull back on the tire with two hands lifting the side that's too deep while pushing the high side down deeper. so may have to do this for about 1/4 of the wheel/tire circumference

when I mount tires I do a lot of massaging to get them even on both sides. I pinch the tires as I massage them & look into the channel to be sure I don't see any tube. add a little air & keep massaging around as I bend the tire back & forth to be sure the tire feels comfy on each side. if there's too much air in the tube I can't push the bead down deeper or pull it up. if no luck like I'll remove one side of the tire's bead & start from scratch. before you mount the bead again look all around to be sure the tube inside looks even. I keep my bike stuff in my basement which is kinds cold sometimes. I've used a space heater to warm tires up a few degrees. the difference between 50 degrees & 70 degrees sometimes helps make a tire more pliable

on a related note, I've noticed & confirmed with read about "tire wobble" with larger, meaning wider tires, like on hybrids & mountain bikes. those have required considerably more massaging, checking, inflating, deflating & reflating to get them as even as possible

listen to this guy at 2:57


this guy shows how he uses soap to fix mountain bike tire wobble. he doesn't seem to massage it much, or at all


Last edited by rumrunn6; 12-22-18 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 12-22-18, 07:15 PM
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Success!

I used the method suggested by Bill and Rumrunn6 - undiluted dish soap. When I was pumping it up, at around 55 lb, there was a pop and the tire seated itself nicely!

Many thanks for all the other replies - they all add to the knowledge base. Interesting that the BikemanforU mentions that the problem is common with oldie Schwinns.

Now I have another problem:

I took off the rear fender to straighten it. I put the back wheel back on - to get the bike out of the way, pushing the wheel all the way down into the drop outs. I just happened to spin the wheel and noticed that it is not centered - it is almost touching the right seat stay (looking from behind the wheel) and there is a big gap on the other side. I suppose I could center it by adjusting the wheel in the drop outs but wouldn't the weight of the rider bang it back down to the bottom of the drop outs?

Never easy, is it.
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Old 12-22-18, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
I suppose I could center it by adjusting the wheel in the drop outs but . . .
What are the other options?
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Old 12-22-18, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
What are the other options?
Search me - I'm a beginner bike mechanic.

Deepen the drop out channel with a file?
Put a spacer in the other channel?
Bend the seat stay?
Live with it, as is?
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Old 12-22-18, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
Success!

I used the method suggested by Bill and Rumrunn6 - undiluted dish soap. When I was pumping it up, at around 55 lb, there was a pop and the tire seated itself nicely!

Many thanks for all the other replies - they all add to the knowledge base. Interesting that the BikemanforU mentions that the problem is common with oldie Schwinns.

Now I have another problem:

I took off the rear fender to straighten it. I put the back wheel back on - to get the bike out of the way, pushing the wheel all the way down into the drop outs. I just happened to spin the wheel and noticed that it is not centered - it is almost touching the right seat stay (looking from behind the wheel) and there is a big gap on the other side. I suppose I could center it by adjusting the wheel in the drop outs but wouldn't the weight of the rider bang it back down to the bottom of the drop outs?

Never easy, is it.
So how are the drop outs orientated? Vertical, horizontal or somewhat angled? Where along the drop outs' slot is the wear point form previous installs?

Do know that millions of bikes have been used for decades with their axles not fully seated at the drop out slots ends with no issues. Why would your set up be any different? Andy
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Old 12-23-18, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
So how are the drop outs orientated? Vertical, horizontal or somewhat angled? Where along the drop outs' slot is the wear point form previous installs?

Do know that millions of bikes have been used for decades with their axles not fully seated at the drop out slots ends with no issues. Why would your set up be any different? Andy

That's what I was thinking too. I'd be surprised if a 70's Schwinn didn't have horizontal rear dropouts. If that's the case, you have to center the wheel between the chain stays as you tighten the axle nuts. If it's a 0ne speed or a 3-speed, you also have to adjust the chain tension at the same time. If that's the case, it's also quite a bit easier if you tighten the left side axle nut first.
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Old 12-23-18, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
...... I suppose I could center it by adjusting the wheel in the drop outs but wouldn't the weight of the rider bang it back down to the bottom of the drop outs?

Never easy, is it.
Many bikes require you manually move the DS axle position in the slot to align the wheel.
My Rockhopper for example.
COMMON-

Tightening the axle nuts/QR will secure the wheel.
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Old 12-23-18, 04:07 PM
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OK, fair dinkum.
I'll just align, adjust the chain tension and tighten the axle nuts.
Many thanks to all for taking the time to set me straight.
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Old 12-23-18, 08:07 PM
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I recall you need 597 mm tires

Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Are you 100% certain that you have the correct size tire? Schwinn had some oddball sizes BITD. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#fraction
As I recall finding the correct tires for a Schwinn I rebuilt for a friend was not trivial.
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Old 12-24-18, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
I recall you need 597 mm tires
You are quite correct - and that is the size I put on.

After using the dish soap trick, everything is cool.

Next up is "straightening" the back fender.
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