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To cold-set or to just shove in..126mm->130mm

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To cold-set or to just shove in..126mm->130mm

Old 01-27-19, 01:05 PM
  #1  
shuru421
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To cold-set or to just shove in..126mm->130mm

Which would you guys advise on? Ive spoken with few and was told that shoving it in would be more a temporary fix, and that a professional cold-set (through a framebuilder, not LBS) would be the most proper, which is fairly obvious. 126mm ----> 130mm Any problems with causing stress to the dropouts? Misalignment? Thank you for all responses.
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Old 01-27-19, 01:09 PM
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ridelikeaturtle
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If it were mine, it'd depend a bit on the value of the frame. If it's super-rare and expensive, then by all means take out your wallet and bring it to a pro.

But 126mm to 130mm isn't massive (unlike 120mm to 130mm). Just to confirm, this is a steel frame? Cold-setting it yourself isn't difficult, lots of YouTube videos on how to do it. It'd certainly make it easier if you have to change the rear wheel, in the case of a flat tyre etc.
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Old 01-27-19, 01:16 PM
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Cold setting and aligning the dropouts is the ideal way to do it if your frame is suitable, i.e. steel. If it's carbon or aluminum, you really can't cold set ii. Ti can be but it requires a real expert to do it right.

That said, just forcing a 130 mm hub into 126 mm dropouts is done all the time and isn't a big deal. The misalignment of the dropouts is very minor and generally harmless. Assuming typical 40cm chainstays, the angular change going from 126 to 130 mm is 0.5.
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Old 01-27-19, 01:18 PM
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I agree with what turtle said above. Only thing I'd add is that if it's something really collectable you should build it period correct/126 anyway.
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Old 01-27-19, 01:19 PM
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And, How did it go when you tried it ?

often a hub has spacers on the left end to thin a bit so rather than 130 it can be 128 , so only a 2mm spread rather than 4..
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Old 01-27-19, 01:54 PM
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If you want a temporary solution (use a wheel set until you find something better), then just shove the wheel in and ride.

If you want a permanent solution, either build a 126mm wheelset, or coldset the frame.

One note, if you do cold-set the frame, I haven't done it yet, but lots of people strongly encourage clamping the brake bridge.
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Old 01-27-19, 02:30 PM
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Never had a problem with brake or chainstay bridges coming loose when spreading a frame. But I have opted out a couple of times from doing this for various reasons so maybe I have avoided the worst potentials.

What is the frame made of? Steel is the only frame material to spread. Can you remove the BB yourself? I find that clamping the BB in a big bench vise makes for far better control of the bending then working freehand or on the floor. I would strongly suggest that the drop outs are realigned after spreading. While you're back there a hanger check isn't a bad idea.

A competent shop can do this easily enough but the qualifier is competent. This isn't what I would ask a LBS to do during their busy season. Certainly a frame person is a good choice too but if one's not local getting the frame/bike to them get's costly. No mention of locality (no surprise, most posters don't bother with this info) so no ability to offer where to go advice. If you're local to me this could be a pretty quick and low cost deal. Andy
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Old 01-27-19, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
If it were mine, it'd depend a bit on the value of the frame. If it's super-rare and expensive, then by all means take out your wallet and bring it to a pro.

But 126mm to 130mm isn't massive (unlike 120mm to 130mm). Just to confirm, this is a steel frame? Cold-setting it yourself isn't difficult, lots of YouTube videos on how to do it. It'd certainly make it easier if you have to change the rear wheel, in the case of a flat tyre etc.
I watched a Youtube video of a guy who said you can use a 2x4 on it's edge levered against the seat tube to bend out one chainstay at a time If I were to think of all the ways to dent or bend a seat tube, THAT would have to be at or near the top of the list. But hey, it's OK, he put a towel under it

Last edited by nomadmax; 01-27-19 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 01-27-19, 02:46 PM
  #9  
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I spread my Crosscut frame (steel) a couple of years ago using a piece of threaded rod, some nuts, washers and a couple of wrenches. Took a couple tries to hit the mark, but has worked fine...no alignment issues.
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Old 01-27-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
I watched a Youtube video of a guy who said you can use a 2x4 on it's edge levered against the seat tube to bend out one chainstay at a time If I were to think of all the ways to dent or bend a seat tube, THAT would have to be at or near the top of the list. But hey, it's OK, he put a towel under it
In fairness, it'd take a lot of aggressive and ham-fisted levering with a 2x4 to hurt an old steel frame. I've used this method (from Sheldon Brown) with no ill effects on an old steel Bianchi, it worked beautifully:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
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Old 01-27-19, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
In fairness, it'd take a lot of aggressive and ham-fisted levering with a 2x4 to hurt an old steel frame. I've used this method (from Sheldon Brown) with no ill effects on an old steel Bianchi, it worked beautifully:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
When it comes to one of my old Colnagos or the the like, I'll pop for Franklin Frames to do it. And if he breaks out a 2x4 and a towel, I'll leave. They aren't making Columbus SLX tubing anymore (to my knowledge anyway) and I know for a fact there isn't any more Columbus Gilco.
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Old 01-27-19, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
often a hub has spacers on the left end to thin a bit so rather than 130 it can be 128 , so only a 2mm spread rather than 4..
First, the difference between 130 and 126 is equivalent to a spoke's width on each side. This is not much and it is likely that just using your wheel by spreading the dropouts would be entirely satisfactory. As fietsbob mentioned, you can possibly reduce the spreading by messing with the axle spacers.

Cold setting a frame is not difficult. Ensuring that the setting was equal on each side is the important part. If shopping for a bike shop to do the work, ask to see their alignment tool. If they don't have one, or say they do the "string" method, either find another shop or do it yourself.

Good luck.
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Old 01-27-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
If you want a temporary solution (use a wheel set until you find something better), then just shove the wheel in and ride.

If you want a permanent solution, either build a 126mm wheelset, or coldset the frame.

One note, if you do cold-set the frame, I haven't done it yet, but lots of people strongly encourage clamping the brake bridge.
I have a pair of grooved clamp blocks I made (drilled a hole, cut the block in half) which I put across the brake bridge and clamp firmly with a bar clamp. Then I use the Sheldon Brown 2x4 method; I am concerned that the all-thread method will preferentially bend the weak side. Then I have the LBS use their tools to align the dropouts.and derailleur hanger.
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Old 01-27-19, 05:36 PM
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Last year , I upgraded my old Ciocc frame (Columbus Alle) 7 speed to 10 speed, no issues. I first, tried putting the wheel (130mm) without cold setting, and it went right in, so no cold setting. I have 72 year old fingers with arthritis . Ridden hundreds of miles. Chainstay is 41cm. KB.
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Old 01-27-19, 05:41 PM
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I was using 130 mm wheels on a 126 mm for the past few months, '91 Ochsner steel frame. The only problem I experienced was having to really tighten done the quick release skewers. I was using the friction setting on the down tube shifters and they worked fine with 8 speed cassette. Recently I found replacement dust cap and 6 speed freewheel for the original Mavic MA 2 rear and decided to go back to the original set up. I did all that work this morning, plus new gear cables and brake pads. Took It out for a 15 mile shake down ride and it is operating Great! STEEL IS REAL!
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Old 01-27-19, 05:43 PM
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I did not mention that with the 130 set up I had to manually spread the stays a bit to mount the wheel.
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Old 01-27-19, 07:52 PM
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My only experience is with a ti frame. 135 hub in a 130 OLD frame. Easy to install and remove. If spring ever gets here, will start fourth season with hub/frame combo.
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Old 01-27-19, 09:54 PM
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Measure and/or just try it first. I checked a newly acquired '86 Centurion Ironman (thinking of upgrades of course) and found it to be 127.5 !
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Old 01-28-19, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stormsedge View Post
I spread my Crosscut frame (steel) a couple of years ago using a piece of threaded rod, some nuts, washers and a couple of wrenches. Took a couple tries to hit the mark, but has worked fine...no alignment issues.
I have done the same on several frames. I go to 135mm because 135mm hubs are 2/3 the cost for same quality.

As noted, it is safe to clamp the brake bridge - no downside to clamping, but really should not be required. If the brake bridge did let go, it was like to let go soon even if you didn't spread.

After spreading, check the fame alignment with string method (see Sheldon for technique); re-align the drop outs (us micrometer and small square to measure gap and front and rear of drop out, use medium-large crescent wrench to bend (align) and finally re-align derailleur hanger.
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Old 01-28-19, 04:10 PM
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The dropouts stress the axle and flex it a little causing wear.
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Old 01-28-19, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
I watched a Youtube video of a guy who said you can use a 2x4 on it's edge levered against the seat tube to bend out one chainstay at a time If I were to think of all the ways to dent or bend a seat tube, THAT would have to be at or near the top of the list. But hey, it's OK, he put a towel under it
Must have been RJ. lol
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Old 01-29-19, 05:18 AM
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Apparently Campagnolo made 126mm 'cassette' hubs which were compatible with any 8 speed Campagnolo cassettes. This is perfect as I dont mind going above 8 speed, just need to get the gear ratio of my liking. Id rather not do anything 'detrimental' in any way as this is a pretty rare frame..
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Old 01-29-19, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by shuru421 View Post
...this is a pretty rare frame..
A few points for a "pretty rare frame":
1) I have a son-in-law who would do a nice job and a son-in-law that knows it would be unwise for him to try this alone, he is just not mechanically inclined
2) Is the frame straight now? Can you ride around the block hands free? If so, the string test should work well. If not take to to a frame builder.
3) reducing the NDS by 2 or 4mm and I would want to re-dish the rear wheel so the track is not offset by a mm or 2. Works well on my Vitus 979 (aluminum frame).
4) In the unlikely event the steel is Reynolds 753 caution is needed. I rescued a very nice custom Reynolds 753 frame which had a bent fork and frame. I tried straightening the offending blade and as soon as I mounted the bike the blade would snap back. The internet and Reynolds engineering docs will tell you 753 can't be cold set. Took to a frame builder with many years behind him who knew better. Applying his Marchetti frame alignment table and massive fork table it is now a beautiful ride, however the string test is 1.5mm off which I can not explain.

I have not seen a 126mm Campy hub that would take an 8 speed, would love to see more info. I do have a Japanese frame running Sheldon's "8 of 9 on 7 trick" on a 126 frame.

Last edited by easyupbug; 01-29-19 at 08:08 AM. Reason: request
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Old 01-29-19, 09:51 AM
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I coldsetted a hi-ten mtb frame. Here's my thought...I didn't like it.
To get the stays to bend the first time require a enourmous amount of force...like using a very long 2x4 and me putting my whole body weight into it.
Later, I decided to make it back to the original spacing...this second time, it was very easy to bend the stays...like much much easier...like I could do it with my bare hand (no 2x4).

I was shocked the stays are so weakened.

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Old 01-29-19, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by easyupbug View Post
I have not seen a 126mm Campy hub that would take an 8 speed, would love to see more info. I do have a Japanese frame running Sheldon's "8 of 9 on 7 trick" on a 126 frame.
I found veryyyyyy little info but it indeed was available at some point. Finding the hub is another topic.. Once I receive my 126mm with 8 speed compatible cassette, Ill post more pics. I have this pic for the time being as it was sent from the seller. Very excited!

Also I have read there is a trick to using 8-9 speed Ergo shifters with 7 speed freewheel. Is this true and straight forward? Or will it require a combination of parts? (Ex. Campagnolo 8-9 speed brifters, shimano rear derailleur etc.)
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