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Swapping Out Rims

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Old 02-07-19, 02:09 PM
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richas
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Swapping Out Rims

In another thread I discussed how my gravel bike rims are narrow for the tires I run, they are 622x15. While I would like to go out and buy new wheels there is no budget for that. How feasible is it to buy new rims only? What are compatibility issues in finding suitable rims? Foe example how many spoke count variations are there? I will get my wheel type when I can, they are Bontrager rim brakes, and I know the spoke length is 281mm.

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Old 02-07-19, 02:15 PM
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Its a wheel-building project have you built many wheels? from parts ? you ready to learn?

Needed tools purchase is another budget drain..

Abundant threads on that and sites on the web,

not simple but can be done ...

simple is Pay someone else to do it..




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Old 02-07-19, 02:18 PM
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Doing a rim swap isn't too hard if you take your time.
The only thing you have to look out for is the number of spokes, then plug your rim & hub specs into an online spoke calculator to get your spoke lengths (google it, i haven't got the post count i need to post links)
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Old 02-07-19, 02:24 PM
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Oh I am totally up for this! (Minus the truing, I'll let a pro do that) An no, never done it before, but I am very ept.

I will look for the spoke calculator, thanks.

Looking at the DT Swiss R 460 700C rims, seems like a good value.

Rich
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Old 02-07-19, 02:32 PM
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Yea , only 2 identical rims , can you use the easy, tape one rim to the other, de tension, and move the spokes over 1 by 1..
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Old 02-07-19, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by richas View Post
In another thread I discussed how my gravel bike rims are narrow for the tires I run, they are 622x15. While I would like to go out and buy new wheels there is no budget for that. How feasible is it to buy new rims only? What are compatibility issues in finding suitable rims? Foe example how many spoke count variations are there? I will get my wheel type when I can, they are Bontrager rim brakes, and I know the spoke length is 281mm.

Thnaks

Rich
I would just leave well enough alone. Millions of people have run much wider tires (think MTB size) on that width of rim without issues or freaking out. If your rims were "too narrow" for your tires, you would have noticed something by now.

If you want to upgrade to wider rims when these ones wear out, though, knock yourself out.
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Old 02-07-19, 02:47 PM
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One minor point that can be missed is that many rims have an offset from center line of the spoke holes. Not talking about asymmetrical rims where all the spoke holes are off center to reduce the tension differences that a dished wheel produces. I'm talking about the right/left/right/left stagger to better align the nipples leaving the rim toward the flange that spoke goes to.

At one time rims were considered as being either "right handed" or left handed" by where the valve hole sat among the stagger. The goal being that the two spokes on either side of the valve both radiate away from the valve and to the correct flange (matching the holes' stagger). If one replaced a RH rim with a LH rim and matched the valve holes up (as in when you tape the rims side to side then transfer a spoke at a time to the new rim) you would end up with the right staggered nipple holes being used on spokes going to the left flange, this is a no no. To avoid this the valve holes were rotated one spoke spacing apart before the spokes were transferred over. This placed the valve hole between two spokes radiating in the same direction. Not as nice as before but at least not having the spokes crossing over the valve and making air chuck attachment harder.

But this assumes that the new rims will have the same ERD as the old so that the same spokes could be used. And therefore the temptation to just tape the rims together and transfer one spoke/nipple over at a time. This chance of the same ERD is slim as more and more current rims are made with a deeper section (from the bead seat to the nipple base). Even the same "model" a few years later can change (as example the Mavic Open Pros had an ERD of 605mm and current ones are 589). The DT 460s are listed at either 596mm or 593.5mm ERD depending on who you follow.
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Old 02-07-19, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I would just leave well enough alone. Millions of people have run much wider tires (think MTB size) on that width of rim without issues or freaking out. If your rims were "too narrow" for your tires, you would have noticed something by now.

If you want to upgrade to wider rims when these ones wear out, though, knock yourself out.
I appreciate this, one worry is not knowing when to worry...

Rich
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Old 02-07-19, 03:07 PM
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If it was me, I would look for two used wheels (matched or otherwise) that have rims you prefer. I can usually find used 700C wheels around the price of either a cheap new rim or new spokes, and you end up with equipment that you can swap to suit conditions (or just to put off flat repairs to the weekend or whatever). I would look for used wheels locally at a bike co-op or on craigslist. If the brake track on the used rim is not noticeably worn and the wheel is mostly true (does not hit the brake shoes), the most you are going to need to do is repack the bearings (good to do every year or two, anyway) or pay someone to true it (you were going to pay this for a rim swap anyway). Just a different take on your situation.

-Wll
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Old 02-07-19, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by richas View Post
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I would just leave well enough alone. Millions of people have run much wider tires (think MTB size) on that width of rim without issues or freaking out. If your rims were "too narrow" for your tires, you would have noticed something by now.

If you want to upgrade to wider rims when these ones wear out, though, knock yourself out.
I appreciate this, one worry is not knowing when to worry...

Rich
Why not just mount the new tires and take a test ride?
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Old 02-07-19, 05:55 PM
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Two lines from your previous posts:

In another thread I discussed how my gravel bike rims are narrow for the tires I run, they are 622x15.
Looking at the DT Swiss R 460 700C rims, seems like a good value.


I am a bit confused by your 2 posts. You mention 622 X 15 for your present wheels and 700C for the DT Swiss with no width. What is the width of the DT Swiss? I hope you realize that 622 and 700C are the same.
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Old 02-08-19, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by richas View Post
An no, never done it before, but I am very ept.


https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2...t-ane-ert.html

You may be ept, but I'm ane and ert.
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Old 02-08-19, 10:35 AM
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Swapping rims is a big deal.

Assuming everything else is in excellent condition, you still have to get the spoke length right. Most of the variation in spoke length is due to the rim. As rims have shifted toward deeper, more aero looking extrusions, the spoke length variations have become more pronounced.

If you are replacing spokes, and if you are using a different style rim that's likely. After getting the correct parts, all you have to do is to lace up the wheel, tension and true.

If you are replacing an identical rim, or one with the same number of spokes and ERD, you can simplify the process by taping the new rim to the old one and switching the spokes over 1 at a time. If you decide to do this I'd make sure I had some replacement nipples on hand. Actually, I'd use all new nipples cause it's easier.

Assuming your objective is to save money, you will be surprised at the price variation in rims. It pays to shop around. One of the dirty little secrets of wheel building is that you can usually buy a new prebuilt wheel for about the same cost as the same unassembled parts separately. Some people poo poo prebuilt wheels but new bikes all come with prebuilt wheels and most of them get only the most cursory check as the boxed bike is assembled.
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Old 02-08-19, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
One of the dirty little secrets of wheel building is that you can usually buy a new prebuilt wheel for about the same cost as the same unassembled parts separately.
This.

It's one of the reasons I have not built a wheel in quite some time.
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Old 02-08-19, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by richas View Post
Oh I am totally up for this! (Minus the truing, I'll let a pro do that) An no, never done it before, but I am very ept.

I will look for the spoke calculator, thanks.

Looking at the DT Swiss R 460 700C rims, seems like a good value.

Rich
$175 for a rim brake wheelset using the DT Swiss R460 rim, DT Swiss 2.0 straight-gauge spokes, and Origin8 hubs - hard to beat this if it meets your needs and less hassle than re-building using existing parts. 1795 gms. for the pair.

However, you're only gaining 3mm of inner rim width (18mm for the R460 vs. your 15mm existing). The advert. says that tires up to 35mm can be used with the R460. Many people believe that you could safely go a little wider - perhaps 40mm (this is debated endlessly on the internet).

DT SWISS R460 RIMS ROAD BIKE WHEELSET 8-11 SPEED TUBELESS COMPAT


DT Swiss R460 Rims Road Bike Wheelset 8-11 speed 32h Ultegra [741463] - $229.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike


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Old 02-11-19, 10:51 AM
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I am sticking with my 15mm wide Bontager 6700s for now. I have them all cleaned up and a new pair of Gravel Grinder 38s installed.

I have learned a lot about wheel building which may or may not come in handy in the future. Thank you Jlaw for the wheel suggestion, I will keep that in mind. Tom, words only get added to the dictionary through common use, doing my part for ept.

Thank all for expanding my burgeoning bicycle mechanics knowledge. Sometimes I am a hammer in search of a nail and I rely on voices of experience for the rational path.

Rich
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Old 02-12-19, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by richas View Post
Tom, words only get added to the dictionary through common use, doing my part for ept.
Thank you for doing your part. I'm serious. I will work these words into my conversations. And I will laugh or hope others do. I am an ert linguist.
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Old 02-12-19, 07:26 PM
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Sounds like you worked it out, but for any others: I am replacing the rims on my '64 Legnano with Sun CR18s. This is a bike I've had 55 years since new, and the hubs are Legnano branded Campy large flange, and my sentimentality is the x factor in this equation. Cost wise, 2 new rims, $71, 72 double butted SS spokes + brass nipples + 2 Velox rim strips $144, LBS labor, $70 (A great deal). On another bike, I bought a complete new Reynolds alloy wheelset (modern 10 spd cassette) for less than the spokes cost above. Having a nice new set of rims on a bike I love and even grew up with (and grew old with!) is priceless, but not always economical. Even if you do the build yourself, the labor cost is a small part of the total. (Even at the low price the Reynolds have been great wheels, so low price doesn't always mean low quality, and vice versa)

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Old 02-15-19, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
Sounds like you worked it out, but for any others: I am replacing the rims on my '64 Legnano with Sun CR18s. This is a bike I've had 55 years since new, and the hubs are Legnano branded Campy large flange, and my sentimentality is the x factor in this equation. Cost wise, 2 new rims, $71, 72 double butted SS spokes + brass nipples + 2 Velox rim strips $144, LBS labor, $70 (A great deal). On another bike, I bought a complete new Reynolds alloy wheelset (modern 10 spd cassette) for less than the spokes cost above. Having a nice new set of rims on a bike I love and even grew up with (and grew old with!) is priceless, but not always economical. Even if you do the build yourself, the labor cost is a small part of the total. (Even at the low price the Reynolds have been great wheels, so low price doesn't always mean low quality, and vice versa)
It's your bike and you've probably already bought the parts, but I'd splurge for a 55-year-old friend! Pacenti Brevets would be roughly the same width, but much lighter and have more of a classic look. Up to you.
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Old 02-15-19, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
It's your bike and you've probably already bought the parts, but I'd splurge for a 55-year-old friend! Pacenti Brevets would be roughly the same width, but much lighter and have more of a classic look. Up to you.
Thanks, but the wheels are all laced and waiting for tires. I didn't see the Brevets till I had already ordered the CR18s. Maybe next time. Here's the new wheels on a $20 Super Course frame I found on CL a couple days ago. For the price I'm happy with them, but I'll probably lose the big stickers. I did check the weight, and double the price to save 20 grams doesn't work for me. The Brevets do have nicer stickers, though.😀


And on the Legnano waiting for tires.

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Old 02-15-19, 11:10 PM
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Sun's weight specs are suspect -- real 700C CR18s have been measured at 520 grams or more. But your wheels look good and I think they'll serve you well.
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